Alter your play for donks - early game?

I play the $20-$30 sngs at PS. I've been playing for 3 months or so and I'd say I'm a break even player right now. I play pretty tight preflop (early game). But if I do get in a hand, I try to win it. Sometimes these little forays pan out, sometimes they blow up on me, which is why I'm still only a break-even player at this point. Like I said, I try a lot of things, I don't always take the books I read as gospel, and I'm still learning.

Anyway, what I'm wondering is are there any general idioms for extracting the most money from mega-loose aggressive/passive players early in the game--w/o losing it all? Without fail there are 2,3,4 of these people early on, mostly calling stations, and it's just a matter of time before they pay off someone. Seems to me like it's worth it to take some extra risks early to try to lay some traps and double up before only the solid players are left.

Trouble is I'm obviously not laying them right at the moment. Seems like over and over I'll raise big (5BB or more, depending on how many chips are in the pile) early with KK or QQ, just to have 2 or 3 calls, including A7 guy who hits his A on the flop. Then I spend all my chips trying to convince him I have AK (which is dumb I know, if he called with A7, he's not folding it very often). So then the next game, I'll limp with AT where I would normally fold, trying to trap Ax, only to run into an actual solid player limping with AJ. I am taking notes and I've noticed a pattern of myself getting bit in the butt trying to alter my play in these situations. But it's just so hard not to try to trap or otherwise milk these guys for all their chips early.

I'd appreciate any thoughts on strategies/plays that work for profitable early game fleecing? I know i still have a ton to learn.

thx,
Matt

chirp... chirp... chirp....

[wuwei]

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Without fail there are 2,3,4 of these people early on, mostly calling stations, and it's just a matter of time before they pay off someone. Seems to me like it's worth it to take some extra risks early to try to lay some traps and double up before only the solid players are left


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The second statement does not follow logically from the first statement. They are calling stations. Why do you need to set traps? Just pick up some good hands and bet them for value. The rest will follow...

[SonnyJay]

As a general idea, I don't think that considerably altering your play to "trap" bad opponents is very good...in some ways, you're lowering to their level of play where another good, solid player can take advantage of you. Not to say that against certain opponents you can't open up some, but it's a slippery slope where you can find yourself making many mistakes if you aren't careful.

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Seems like over and over I'll raise big (5BB or more, depending on how many chips are in the pile) early with KK or QQ, just to have 2 or 3 calls, including A7 guy who hits his A on the flop. Then I spend all my chips trying to convince him I have AK (which is dumb I know, if he called with A7, he's not folding it very often).

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If you're against 1 opponent (or maybe 2 and 1 checked to you) you can continuation bet KK and QQ on an A high flop, but if you get called you're looking to show the hand down cheaply. You also need to get used to folding these hands postflop when it becomes clear you are against an A. Yeah it sucks, but just think of those times that you face three callers, undercards flop, and you end up taking down a nice pot.

Something to remember:
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Seems like over and over I'll raise big...

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1. Poker is streaky, and there will be times that your KK does continuously run into an A on the flop. Keep it in perspective...long term it won't happen as often as it can in a short time.
2. We tend to remember times that we are screwed more than times we screw someone else. We don't think twice when our AT beats KK, but say "dammit, he beat my KK" when it happens to us. We view ourselves as really unlucky when 66 sets against our AA but just move on to the next hand when our lower pocket pair cracks AA. We tend to have selective memories when it comes to these things, so it's often not as bad as we remember it.

Also, as a general rule, you'll find better advice if you post specific hands using the guidelines in the FAQ. It's really hard to give meaningful feedback to a general post that encompasses so many situations and concepts.

Good luck.

-SonnyJay

Donks are easy to make $$ from - Group 1 Hands.

But, imho, it's even easier to make money off of TAGs. Raise EP with 67s, 78s, or 98s in level 1 or 2. A raise of 50 or 65 is good. AA/KK will usually reraise you to 100 or 125. No problem. You're a 4 to 1 dog. But that's ok. Because if flop does not have a straight or strong draws, I'm out of there. If it does, I get 800 chips since they push thinking I have smaller pockets or AK-AT.

So, 4 times I lose 100 chips (-400) and one time I win (800). Net +400 chips. Numbers are even better if u consider bluff potential with certain boards.

Thanks a lot Sonny, that was some good adivce. I'll come with a specific hand the next time I want some. Btw is there a card converter for PS like that one everyone uses for PP hands?

[gildwulf]

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Donks are easy to make $$ from - Group 1 Hands.

But, imho, it's even easier to make money off of TAGs. Raise EP with 67s, 78s, or 98s in level 1 or 2. A raise of 50 or 65 is good. AA/KK will usually reraise you to 100 or 125. No problem. You're a 4 to 1 dog. But that's ok. Because if flop does not have a straight or strong draws, I'm out of there. If it does, I get 800 chips since they push thinking I have smaller pockets or AK-AT.

So, 4 times I lose 100 chips (-400) and one time I win (800). Net +400 chips. Numbers are even better if u consider bluff potential with certain boards.

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This is terrible advice. I hope you are joking.

[RikaKazak]

to be honest man, most 1-table tourny players aren't that good pf, I would say that a 109 or 215 SNG is equivalent to a NL 50 game when it's 7-10 handed. And when it's 6 equivalent to NL 100. when it's 5 or lower is when it gets tough. I would recomend playing ring games. Get used to 6 max and 10 handed play for cash, cause it's suppose to be really similiar. It will also help out your post flop play if you play cash games.

[tigerite]

I don't think he is. I saw yesterday at a $55 someone I thought was a good player, min-raise and call a re-raise all-in preflop with, erm, 5 4 sooted. He lucked out against 99 as well.

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Donks are easy to make $$ from - Group 1 Hands.

But, imho, it's even easier to make money off of TAGs. Raise EP with 67s, 78s, or 98s in level 1 or 2. A raise of 50 or 65 is good. AA/KK will usually reraise you to 100 or 125. No problem. You're a 4 to 1 dog. But that's ok. Because if flop does not have a straight or strong draws, I'm out of there. If it does, I get 800 chips since they push thinking I have smaller pockets or AK-AT.

So, 4 times I lose 100 chips (-400) and one time I win (800). Net +400 chips. Numbers are even better if u consider bluff potential with certain boards.

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cool! i'll start doing this!