I don't really know what I'm doing...

kurosh · #1 01-03-2005, 01:55 AM

I just like to bet and raise.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $2. Hero posts a blind of $2.
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 (poster) checks, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero (poster) raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, MP1 folds, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

River: (7.25 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB

Nick C · #2 01-03-2005, 04:47 PM

I wouldn't want to give up to a single bet on the draw-friendly flop, especially since I have some weak draws of my own (overcards, backdoor flush, backdoor straight) in the event that I am behind (which is likely). I'm not sure whether I'd call or raise here. I want to raise because I want to take control and there is some chance I'm actually ahead. But I do worry about getting 3-bet on the flop and then led into on the turn, especially if my opponent is aggressive enough to play a pair this way.

On the turn, I worry about getting checkraised when I bet, because I don't know if I can fold to that checkraise. If my overcard outs are good, I have the odds to continue drawing. But I don't think I'm confident enough about my overcard outs to call a checkraise. So I'm tempted to take a free card on the turn. One drawback of this, though, is that if my opponent was betting a draw on the flop, my opponent is the one who wants a free card, and I'm giving it to him. Also, if he was betting something like bottom pair and might now give up and fold if I bet, then checking behind on the turn could lose the pot for me. And my opponent might not checkraise the turn unless I was hopelessly behind anyway.

On the river, I don't see much point to betting again. If my opponent missed a draw, he won't call. If he has a made hand, however marginal it might be, he seems committed to it.

Hands like this are difficult. I think you played it all right.

Bob T. · #3 01-03-2005, 04:51 PM

Hands like this are difficult. I think you played it all right.

That says it all, I pretty much agree with what Nick said in his post.

tripdad · #4 01-03-2005, 05:32 PM

this is quite player dependant, and you did not provide any information on your opponent. without this information, i must say that sometimes i raise for a free card...but i always take unless i improve...and sometimes i simply call, and give up on the turn if i am bet into without improving. frankly, i used to play it exactly like you did here, and have gotten away from it because i thought it was a leak.

cheers!

MAxx · #5 01-03-2005, 05:49 PM

I agree with everything that has been mentioned in this post. It's tough and player dependant. I would go with my reads, airing to the aggressive side to fill in any gaps or doubts.

With no reads, I am popping the flop as default in this situation. My table image, may influence me to alter my default as well.

djr · #6 01-03-2005, 05:55 PM

Given the BB bet into the preflop raiser I'd say he either had top or mid pair or a flush/straight draw. I like your flop raise, it bought you position and the possible free card. I would have checked the turn and check/folded the river. Like tripdad I used to play it your way and have started going away from that.

kurosh · #7 01-03-2005, 07:25 PM

Villain had QTo. If I check on the turn, it'll probably induce a river bluff and I'll have to fold to that, won't I? He could have easily had a pair and I would just be spewing chips. What stats do you look at to determine what to do? VP$IP and aggression? Raise the more aggressive ones, call or fold to the passive ones?

BottlesOf · #8 01-03-2005, 07:51 PM

Let's say the 4 on the turn was a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

What's your plan then when checked to?

How does this card change your thinking?

Nick C · #9 01-03-2005, 08:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Let's say the 4 on the turn was a [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

What's your plan then when checked to?

How does this card change your thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be more inclined to bet again, since I think there's now a better chance my opponent will fold and I have more ways to go on to win if he doesn't fold.

If I got checkraised, I wouldn't be happy about it, since then I'd be paying two BBs to chase a flush I could've drawn to for free. But I think I'd risk getting checkraised.

me454555 · #10 01-03-2005, 08:49 PM

I don't like the flop raise at all. The pot is small and the pot is already heads up. I would call the flop and fold unless I improved on the turn. The other advantage of flop call is that your opponent may bet into you again and you can raise them if you improve. You can also semibluff if a 3rd diamond comes.

If the pot were bigger, say 10 sbs and there were a few people left to act behind, a flop raise would definatly be the right play.