MGM - misdeal or dead hand?

Jersey Nick · #1 09-21-2005, 01:10 PM

4/8 limit hold ‘em
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises, MP appears as if he wants to call and says to the dealer “where are my cards?”
Dealer says “you mucked them”.
MP says, “No, I didn’t. That’s a misdeal”.
Dealer says “UTG+1 declared raise, you were next to act and your cards were over the line. I thought you folded and I mucked the cards. The hand is dead. Continue the hand”.
MP says “No, that’s a misdeal” and calls for the floor.
Floor comes over and says only one player had acted, there wasn’t significant action, and declared a misdeal.

I thought the floor was wrong as hell and I blame the player for not protecting his hand. I thought his hand was dead since it touched the muck. Thoughts?

MisterKing · #2 09-21-2005, 01:28 PM

It was not a misdeal. The guy should've capped his cards.

SheridanCat · #3 09-21-2005, 02:19 PM

Sounds like significant action to me. Regardless, this was not a misdeal, just a dead hand.

Regards,

T

autobet · #4 09-21-2005, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
just a dead hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Masquerade · #5 09-21-2005, 04:14 PM

I generally agree that its his fault for not protecting his cards but with one caveat. Were his cards still lying where they were dealt and had he just been a little slow in picking them up? In that case I have some sympathy and I dont think the dealer can claim the hand was mucked because theyre over the line if he hadnt touched them yet.

Photoc · #6 09-21-2005, 04:22 PM

What if the hadn't noticed that the player picked them up? Are you saying the dealer has to ask each player if they are folding when their cards are over the commitment line?

Player raises, it's definately "significant action", the mucked hand stays mucked, and the hand goes on. Since the other player hadn't even seen the cards, he should just STFU and go onto the next hand. What's the difference if the player gets it called a missdeal or not, he's still not playing this hand, so as I said, he should STFU and let the others finish the hand they are on.

Masquerade · #7 09-21-2005, 04:37 PM

I agree with you - I was just asking whether the cards had been touched yet. If he'd picked them up then put them down over the line and allowed them to be mucked then I have no sympathy at all. But sometimes you might be stacking chips from winning a pot or tipping a cocktail waitress and the action might get to you a little quicker than expected.

Photoc · #8 09-21-2005, 05:31 PM

My reasoning for my post was that the OP did say the player said he wanted to call. If the player wanted to call, why were his cards over the line then? That's why it's called a commitment line. Commit chips or cards over it and they go to the middle. This clearly falls in line with protecting your cards. If there was a chip or something else on the card, I'm sure 99% of the dealers would stop and not touch them.

youtalkfunny · #9 09-22-2005, 03:28 AM

That does it! I'm through with the B&M forum.

I just can't take any more "It's the dealer's fault!" posts, in threads where the circumstances were far beyond the dealer's control.

[ QUOTE ]
But sometimes you might be stacking chips from winning a pot or tipping a cocktail waitress and the action might get to you a little quicker than expected.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if a player decides that he's not going to protect his hand for a few moments, it becomes the dealers responsibility for that period of time? "Tipping the waitress" is not an excuse for failing to protect your hand.

And now, we've hit an all-time low: we're ragging on the dealer for calling the floor. NOW I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING.

Arreevaderchy, B&M. See you in OOT.

Jersey Nick · #10 09-22-2005, 10:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
That does it! I'm through with the B&M forum.

I just can't take any more "It's the dealer's fault!" posts, in threads where the circumstances were far beyond the dealer's control.

[ QUOTE ]
But sometimes you might be stacking chips from winning a pot or tipping a cocktail waitress and the action might get to you a little quicker than expected.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if a player decides that he's not going to protect his hand for a few moments, it becomes the dealers responsibility for that period of time? "Tipping the waitress" is not an excuse for failing to protect your hand.

And now, we've hit an all-time low: we're ragging on the dealer for calling the floor. NOW I'VE SEEN EVERYTHING.

Arreevaderchy, B&M. See you in OOT.

[/ QUOTE ]
Don't leave YTF! Are you suggesting that there are fewer fools in OOT?
There was no getting around a floor decision. UTG+1 was insisting upon it.