6-Handed (Max) vs Full games

[Kirkrrr]

I've been mulling it over in my head for a while but simply can't get a good grasp on an optimal strategy for the 6-Handed Max tables. It's set right in the gray area between a short-handed table, and a full ring game. Does anyone have any ideas? What about optimal stack sizes? (Absolute, for instance, has a max buy-in of 200BB, which can make things interesting).

All thoughts and advice greatly appreciated,
Kirk R.

[Kirkrrr]

C'mon, guys, I know there's quite a few of ya out there that are killing the 6-handed games. Share your thoughts!

Kirk R.

[Rozez]

I don't actually have any experience on full ring games, I only play poker once a week in a very good home game so you might not want
to take me too seriously [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

We usually have four to six players in our game. Well, it's obvious that high cards go up in value with just three opponents but six-handed is indeed a little trickier. I think this is an ideal game
for you if you're the kind of a player who likes to see flops because it's that grey area you mentioned. I believe both suited hands and high cards are profitable in these games.

People seem to have trouble with hands like KQo or even AKo in full ring games and I'm not the one to argue them about that. They are good hands six-handed, though. It really isn't such a rare thing to see a pair of kings winning the pot. Of course it doesn't happen as often as in shorthanded games, but it happens frequently enough to make them profitable (I think).

Suited hands are also pretty good. They are especially good in the game I play in because there are just two players who could raise preflop with something else than monsters and I'm the other one.
[img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img] These hands are quite profitable if you can always limp in for one bet, hoping to hit it big. I don't mean you should play any two suited in any position, but you should definitely loosen up with these hands (especially against passive opponents).

Six-handed also seems to be a good game to some of the hands Ed Miller categorizes as "Junk offsuit hands" in his excellent Small Stakes Hold'em. You could give a shot to the stronger hands of this category if you have position and you are confident that it won't get raised. I'm talking about hands like J9o or T9o. You probably lose too much by limping in if you go lower than that, though. For example, 87 is definitely too weak to play.

To summarize, I believe many hands are playable in six-handed games. The interesting thing is that every group seems to lose some of it's value when played under these conditions. In addition, some of them gain value because you're in the "no man's land".

Remember that the skill level of your opponents is crucial at this level when selecting your starting hands (as it is always obviously).
I play against weak opponents and that's probably the reason why I
can get away with those offsuit hands I mentioned. If you play against good players you have to make some adjustments to these suggestions.

As for the stack I can't give any accurate estimate regarding it's size. You are probably talking about no limit and I'm only playing limit poker. I hope this post doesn't turn out to be a load of crap because of that (just noticed that 200BB in your post and it got me thinking... [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]) I've been on amazing streak lately, last time I lost my whole buy-in of mighty 25BB (lol) was on new year's eve [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Some of you readers may find these guidelines questionable and it's OK to share your angry thoughts concerning the offsuit section (admit it, you feel the need to do that [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]) Hopefully this post will arouse some discussion about this interesting topic.

These ideas are quite difficult to put together and it doesn't help much that I'm still a newbie when it comes to poker. So forgive me if this post is a little evasive. BTW, if you haven't read SSH it's a must read for more detailed discussion about this. This ended up longer than I had planned, but I just couldn't help it.

Best of luck,
Rozez

[shermn27]

I've only got about 1,500 hands in at 6-max limit games, but success so far has been from seeing about 2/3 of the flops and being quite aggressive after the flop in an effort to increase you chances of winning the pot.

Suited connectors go down in value as the pots are smaller and high cards go up in value. However, I find that low suited cards (i.e. 2s 5s in the BB) can often take down a pot if three suited cards (spades) come on the board as it is less likely someone else has 2 spades.

Honestly though, I find that players who are good at the ring game and bad at 6-max just aren't aggressive enough. They put players on hands that can beat them all the time and fold. It's okay to push with middle pair if you don't think you opponent has top pair. Hand reading skills seem to be quite valuable in 6-max as well. Hope this helps.

[Vee Quiva]

I am also just starting out in the 6 max games. I heard Annie Duke say that she plays the 6 max games just like a ring game except the first 3 players have folded. In other words you are always in middle or late position.

I would also think large pocket pairs go up in value and suited connectors go down due to smaller number of players. With only 6 players and the aggressive nature of the games I doubt very much you will have the odds to chase straights and flushes preflop.

[Gregg777]

Annie Duke is pathetic...

[Rozez]

I agree with you about big pocket pairs going up in value when the game is aggressive. My thoughts on suited connectors rely heavily on my opponents' passive preflop play, which I probably didn't mention in my first post.

Home games have one big difference compared to B&M and online games. Everyone's looking for a nice evening with friends, nothing too serious. That's why the game often turns into crap shooting after the flop. You don't have to be a genius to thrive in a game where you constantly get infinite odds on gutshots, get called to the river with junk etc...

Rozez

[beginnersluck13]

Hey Kirkk,
Came across this post by fimbulwinter today, it is good for some quick "guidelines" as far as hands and what to do preflop with them in the 6 max game.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...mp;sb=5&o=

gl

[Kirkrrr]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. I haven't had a chance to play much poker online this weekend, so have really no new thoughts of my own to share.

I've also heard the "pretend the first three have folded" expression/mindset/perspective (whatever you wanna call it) for the 6-max tables, but I don't think that's correct. They haven't folded, they are just not there, so their blinds will be paid by YOU - that makes a huge difference, one that you can't be ignored.

As I play more of those, I'll try to come back and post some more comments. If anyone has any ideas in the meantime, don't hesitate to PM me or just start this thread again.

Good luck,
Kirk R.

[silvershade]

I dont think that the fact that you are paying the blinds more often is a reason to play more loosely, rather its a reason to blind steal/defend more often.

I think that rather than playing more loosely you just need to adjust the mix of hands you are playing taking into account that drawing hands value goes down the fewer are seeing the flop, because pot/implied odds are reduced, whilst any pairs value is simultaneously increased for the same reason. If you are in one of those 6-max games where 4 or 5 see the flop, then obviously those drawing hands are still good though, although you might end up revising that again if the game is particularly aggressive.