Not getting enough value

[djoyce003]

Hey guys....question here for you on a couple of hands where I think I could have gotten more value for these, but i'm not sure.

Hand 1, No real reads on villain..his play has been relatively moderate, I haven't noticed anything real bad, or anything real good. Obviously the worlds most perfect flop, but I wanted to get value here. Since he raised preflop, i was really hoping he had AQ or AA or something like that. I think my flop raise scared him too much though. I'm curious how you guys play this hand...my way did not get nearly the value I think I could have gotten.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($144.23)
UTG ($17.5)
MP ($32.15)
CO ($491.38)
Button ($43.85)
SB ($99)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, Button calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">SB (poster) raises to $3</font>, Hero calls $2.50, Button calls $2.50.

Flop: ($10.50) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $7</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $14</font>, Button folds, SB calls $7.

Turn: ($38.50) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, SB folds.

Final Pot: $68.50


Hand 2 - villian is a moderately decent player, but tends towards the loose passive side like most of the party players. I figure his raise will limit the field enough, and I don't want to give away my hand yet. I liked my turn raise, I wanted him to call it because I think i'm ahead, and I didn't want to make it so big that he'd fold thinking set....it looks like someone with an ace trying to find out if he has one too. My river bet was what he had left....he typed in the chat window i don't trust my kicker and folded what he said was AQ. Should I have made a smaller river bet? I think AQ calls here more often than it folds, what are your thoughts?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Hero ($215.57)
CO ($86.85)
Button ($47.17)
SB ($103.25)
BB ($85.95)
UTG ($104.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.5.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to $4</font>, Hero calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB (poster) calls $3.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($13) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $8</font>, Hero calls $8, SB folds.

Turn: ($29) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets $15</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $30</font>, UTG calls $15.

River: ($89) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $62.95</font>, UTG folds.

Final Pot: $151.95

[beginnersluck13]

I like both of these hands and how you played them. Hand one I might be tempted to smooth call his flop raise and then try to reraise him on the turn, hoping he leads out again. Hand number two I think you got the most out of it as you could, maybe a smaller bet on the river?

[Simplistic]

hand 2 looks perfect. i wouldn't bet that odd amount though. the amount is good, 2/3-full pot.

hand 1 why would you raise the flop on a drawless board? i'd wait until a non paint turn to pop it.

min-raising if he has TPGK or two pair on that board is scary for them so i'd see how much more I could extract by not showing aggression just yet.

[meow_meow]

Hand 2 fine.

Hand 1 calling the flop is better, especially with button yet to act.

[nietzreznor]

Hand 1: Don't think I like the flop minraise here. Problem is, you scare villain with your raise, but you don't get a whole lot more money in the pot. I'm tempted to just call here, and raise the turn.

Hand 2: Well, I guess the short answer here is that if you think he has Ax, you bet as much as you think he will call. This is pretty read dependent. As you played it, I might bet a little less here, since your turn minraise may have scared him a bit.
As for the turn minraise, I think you should either flat call or raise a bit more (your raise here is only a 1/4 pot raise, I think maybe 1/2 pot here would be better). If you think he has a worse ace, there probably is no harm in just calling here and getting another bet on river. Though if he's loose, I could definitely see him calling a 1/2 pot turn raise, and a 1/2 pot river bet or so with AJ/AQ.

[theblitz]

A side point.
Is KTo really strong enough to call that pre-flop raise?

[swolfe]

min-raising is a fish move

[eh923]

For hand 1, that turn bet is too large. With nearly a pot-sized bet, what would your opponent call with that would be a mistake for him? I think a smaller bet (say 1/2 the pot) would probably get raised by a hand like two-pair or a set, giving you a change to unload on him. A smaller bet would also have a better chance of getting called by someone with a gutshot draw or with a weak ace.

Hand 2 looks good, except the min-raise stuff (as pointed out by other posters).

[IamLeach]

I have been geetting ready to ask a similar question about betting and getting the best Value. You just answered one of my questions so ...TY. My other question is what is a good amount to bet when your bettinbg for value. i.e. Your not quite sure your middle pair good kicker or top pair weak kicker is good but if it is you want to bet for value. This situation come up often for me. Imput on this situation is greatly appreciated.

[wegs the wegs]

[ QUOTE ]
min-raising is a fish move

[/ QUOTE ]

Yet sometimes necessary