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  #11  
Old 12-24-2005, 05:28 PM
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

As I said in the original post, I am biased against this administration. The thing about this is that both sides seem to think that they are so obviously correct that they fail to consider the merits of the other side. I have no desire to start a flame war and I don't mean anything personally on what is a very contentious issue.

To reply to a few points.

1) I am tired of hearing the argument that other presidents and administrations did the same thing. Even if that were true, that is a poor argument. Regardless, I have yet to see any evidence that past presidents have engaged in behavior this egregious.

2) I will concede that both political parties are descipable in their non-stop sniping of each other. Yes, the Democrats complain about a lot of things, but the Republicans were bad too when Clinton was in charge. I have no desire to argue which side is nastier other than they are both horrible.

3) Asking me what civil liberties I have lost is a transparent argument. Any American's loss of civil liberties equates to a loss for us all. Since I am a law-abiding citizen, should I not object to other people losing their rights? If people keep justifying all of this, what is to stop my rights from being violated in the future?

4) Please, no more of this "un-patriotic" argument. If I hear this one more time, I will want to vomit. Essentially you are saying I should support everything the president does during wartime. Bush had a time to be basically immune to criticism immediately after 9-11. Questioning those in charge is exactly what makes Democracy work.
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2005, 07:19 PM
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

First, happy birthday.

Second, there are some conservatives that would not admit that Bush has gone too far even if he announced that he was dissolving Congress, cancelling the 2006 and 2008 elections, and assuming power "indefinitely" in the name of national security. They would say that these are "temoporary" measures that are necessary because we are at war. More to the point, they would cheer any maneuver, no matter how undemocratic, unconstitutional or unprincipled, that kept their side in power.
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  #13  
Old 12-24-2005, 09:06 PM
andyfox andyfox is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

"All civilian citizens are also soldiers for our country in the war on terror. We have to give up some things, both in order to prevent further attacks on our homeland, and in order that our troops and intelligence agents in the field might have the best available intelligence. And they need our moral support and unity as well."

Just a second there, commander. This is not totally militarized society in which every citizen is in the army. Nor is it a police state that requires unity for the national interest to be served. Saddam Hussein required unity. I thought that's what we were fighting against.
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  #14  
Old 12-24-2005, 09:44 PM
BluffTHIS! BluffTHIS! is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

You know what I meant. Our responsibilities on the home front like rationing during WWII. We have sacrifices to make as well. Except they are more petty inconveniences which the libs think are the road to fascism, because they can't get past their selfish "My" ("my" rights) to "We" ("our" common good and defense).
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  #15  
Old 12-24-2005, 10:43 PM
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

[ QUOTE ]
Second, there are some conservatives that would not admit that Bush has gone too far even if he announced that he was dissolving Congress, cancelling the 2006 and 2008 elections, and assuming power "indefinitely" in the name of national security.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is correct, though ridiculous.

[ QUOTE ]
More to the point, they would cheer any maneuver, no matter how undemocratic, unconstitutional or unprincipled, that kept their side in power .

[/ QUOTE ]

And this is not. Here is what would actually happen:



Et Tu, Riddick?
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  #16  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:21 PM
QuadsOverQuads QuadsOverQuads is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?


The true kool-aid drinkers?

Never.

Don't bother them with evidence and facts, they're not listening.


q/q
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  #17  
Old 12-25-2005, 01:01 AM
xpokerx xpokerx is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

I don't see the problem with the signals intelligence, there is nothing illegal about it and nothing unprecedented about it. Just curious, but where were you complaining when Clinton was doing this, and Reagan, and Carter?
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  #18  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:23 AM
ACPlayer ACPlayer is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

The conservatives that are still supporting the administration will never change their mind, never.
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  #19  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:38 AM
BCPVP BCPVP is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

[ QUOTE ]
Second, there are some conservatives that would not admit that Bush has gone too far even if he announced that he was dissolving Congress, cancelling the 2006 and 2008 elections, and assuming power "indefinitely" in the name of national security.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, there are not.
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2005, 04:12 AM
QuadsOverQuads QuadsOverQuads is offline
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Default Re: At what point will conservatives admit Bush has gone too far?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Second, there are some conservatives that would not admit that Bush has gone too far even if he announced that he was dissolving Congress, cancelling the 2006 and 2008 elections, and assuming power "indefinitely" in the name of national security.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, there are not.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are one of them.


q/q
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