Why do some atheists care that there are theists?

[David Sklansky]

"I know you are capable of such errors, based upon your belief that Leibniz's dice error somehow compromises his obvious genius."

I was picking the ten smartest ever out of a hundred candidates with little difference to choose from. That error is glaring enough to drop him off the list. Do you think there is any chance Gauss could have thought something similar?

[valenzuela]

Its hard to explain an emotional reasoning, Im simply bothered by theists..I know thats wrong but I cant help it.

[chezlaw]

The reason I care is that it is astonishing to me that people can see the world in such different ways.

For a long time I thought that it can't be true, they can't really believe this, to me, nonsense, they must just be making it up to support a way of life they prefer.

Over time I have become more convinced that some people do genuinely believe, so I have had to accept that we do see the world fundamentaly differently.

I have to accept the possibility that their view of the world might be correct even though it is alien to me. This is the itch I sometimes feel compelled to scratch.

However once they cross the line and tell me that the way they see the world means that I have a need to believe or am denying my desire to believe or somesuch nonsense, then I know they have got it completely wrong and any text that says the same also has it completely wrong.

chez

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
So you are saying that if they didn't believe in God, these "good Christians" wouldn't give a [censored] about their neighbors? How encouraging. And how wrong. I suspect that those who want to help others don't need a God construct -- I seem to do just fine helping others without one, I would hope a good Christian could do the same.


[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say that if they didn't believe they wouldn't "give a **** about their neighbors." I said that some might not devote their lives to helping others, as they currently do.

Who does more charitable work in America, believers or atheists? It doesn't mean that what they believe in is correct, but of the people I know, the believers do a lot more charitable work than the non-believers. Granted, that is just among the people I know, but I am willing to bet that the average Christian devotes more time to charity than the average atheist.

[JackWhite]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm surprised to find thoughts even resembling these on a Bayesian-aware website.

Actually, altruism is fairly common in social animals and manifests itself in various forms. The reasons for it have nothing to do with religion even though it may be experienced in those terms by some, which is fair enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is the problem with many of you. You are so obsessed with what some philosopher said years ago, that you don't care to look at real life activity. Sorry if I'm not as Bayesian aware as you.

Help me out on this. It is getting close to the time of year that the Salvation Army people stand outside stores freezing their asses off to raise money for the poor. I have never seen the atheist red bucket outside of Walmart. I am sorry if that is not Bayesian aware, but I guess I am relying on things I have actually seen, rather than on what a philosopher might have said years ago. Sorry.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The error I think some make here is confusing some folk’s practice of their religion with the Religion itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually that seems a reifictation error and I'll take a couple of runs at it in an attempt to stir up a deeper look at this aspect of the topic.
"Religion" doesn't exist on it's own, like a horse. Relgion only exists, like running, in the actions of those who are 'doing it'. If I watch the Marathon it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to say "that's not real marathon running" when the 2,000 people just passing me claim to be marathon runners and doing it at the time.

To study penquin mating I would be looking at what they do, not what some paper says they should be doing. It's the 'practice of religion' that is the interesting, useful and meaningful object of attention, not what some unfollowed text may say.

Muslim, christian or any other cult is usefully studied in this "what do Dulquists do? How do they practice their religion? etc". It'd be a real ivory tower waste of time to study something that isn't practiced. As some of the replies indicate, some atheists that buck religousity are doing it because of how it affects their lives and their views of whats good for humanity, etc. Sure, it can be a mindsport to debate the logical flaws that follow some certain belief systems in theory, but that's almost a given and motivates only a few.

luckme

[/ QUOTE ]


Some how I think the residents of Hiroshima and Nagasaki would rather we had crucified Einstein instead of Christ.

Or I wonder what Alfred Nobel would make of your suggestion.

[IronUnkind]

I doubt it, but I also would have doubted that Leibniz could have made the error had it not been so apparent that he, in fact, did make it.

To Sklansky and others who believe that religion does more good than bad,
I completely disagree. There is a widely held misconception that I'm surprised that even Sklansky seems to buy into that if you took away religion, people would stop treating each other as well. This is not supported by evidence at all. Just look at the Netherlands today. They are a very atheistic society. Crime rates are low and charity is much higher than in the U.S. Much of the social progress in our country from the abolition of slavery to giving women the right to vote was sparked by non-believers and fought ferociously by the religious every step of the way. I think you would find that those top 5% of smart people who don't believe in religion are amongst the most law abiding people in our country.

[ QUOTE ]
ok this is my first ever real post here:
I go to a jesuit school and they pray every fcuking day..it makes me sick and unconfortable, specially when I see a teacher leading the prayer. I think that makes me kinda hate religion because they shove it on my face all the time.
That is probably the reason why I try to convince christians how wrong they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate people forcing beliefs on me as well and that is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of religion.
But it's also one of the (many) reasons I don't try and persuade theists.

[RJT]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ok this is my first ever real post here:
I go to a jesuit school and they pray every fcuking day..it makes me sick and unconfortable, specially when I see a teacher leading the prayer. I think that makes me kinda hate religion because they shove it on my face all the time.
That is probably the reason why I try to convince christians how wrong they are.

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate people forcing beliefs on me as well and that is one of the reasons I'm not a fan of religion.
But it's also one of the (many) reasons I don't try and persuade theists.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dang right. Especially if I were attending a religious school. Hudda thunk it?