what to do against maniac...

Mariogs379 · #1 10-06-2005, 11:23 PM

Stars .50/1
guy two to my right has been raising maybe 80% of hands he bets all the way every street too putting max pressure on you if you dont hit
i get 22 he's utg and raises, fold, do i 3-bet him to isolate and if so what do i do with his incessant betting and raising when i dont flop my set...
ideas greatly appreciated,
-Mario

thesharpie · #2 10-06-2005, 11:27 PM

Easy fold. Even against a LAG deuces are no good unless you're heads up, you don't want to be isolating to get heads up with this hand since you're not even a favorite against his range and you're dead in the water if anybody else comes along.

Edit: Happy one.

#3 10-06-2005, 11:48 PM

The good news is that the maniac is right where you want him: on your right. The better news is that when you DO hit your hands, the maniac will help pump the pot for you.

You still only want to play the hands you normally play against a raise.

Pocket 2s are usually considered to be a multiway hand - most of the time, you need to hit a set to win, so you need enough people in the pot to make up for the times you'll lose. So against an UTG raise, you usually fold no matter who's doing the raising.

Aaron W. · #4 10-07-2005, 01:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Stars .50/1
guy two to my right has been raising maybe 80% of hands he bets all the way every street too putting max pressure on you if you dont hit
i get 22 he's utg and raises, fold, do i 3-bet him to isolate and if so what do i do with his incessant betting and raising when i dont flop my set...
ideas greatly appreciated,
-Mario

[/ QUOTE ]

If a 3-bet will isolate him, I 3-bet. Then just call, call, call (unless I hit a set).

If 3-betting won't isolate, muck it and wait for the next hand (unless everyone is coldcalling hoping to get a piece of his stack, then I don't mind coldcalling first).

#5 10-07-2005, 09:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Stars .50/1
guy two to my right has been raising maybe 80% of hands he bets all the way every street too putting max pressure on you if you dont hit
i get 22 he's utg and raises, fold, do i 3-bet him to isolate and if so what do i do with his incessant betting and raising when i dont flop my set...
ideas greatly appreciated,
-Mario

[/ QUOTE ]

If a 3-bet will isolate him, I 3-bet. Then just call, call, call (unless I hit a set).

If 3-betting won't isolate, muck it and wait for the next hand (unless everyone is coldcalling hoping to get a piece of his stack, then I don't mind coldcalling first).

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, the thing is, I really doubt 3betting would isolate him. Everyone knows he's raising every hand, so they will do the usual low limit move of cold calling if they think they have a playable hand.

I fold this and wait for a better chance to take the maniac's money.

#6 10-07-2005, 09:53 AM

Sharpie's right, this is not the line to take with deuces. Here's a challenge: try to find a hand, other than the Hammer, that the maniac could have against which Hero is even a moderate favourite. I don't think there are many. If the guy is raising with 80% of his hands, there is no reason to rush in with deuces. Pick a better spot, and isolate when you've got him dead to rights.

SocialWelfareIV · #7 10-07-2005, 10:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Sharpie's right, this is not the line to take with deuces. Here's a challenge: try to find a hand, other than the Hammer, that the maniac could have against which Hero is even a moderate favourite. I don't think there are many. If the guy is raising with 80% of his hands, there is no reason to rush in with deuces. Pick a better spot, and isolate when you've got him dead to rights.

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Well, the hero's a moderate favorite against AJo -- that's probably in his 80% range. The hero's a moderate favorite against KTo -- also probably in the villain's 80% range. The hero's a moderate favorite against A7o. Even against AKs, it's pretty much 50/50. If a villain is raising 80% of his hands, 22 is going to be a slight favorite or 50/50 with a vast majority of them, and a dog against very few.

Aaron W.'s got it right. If a 3-bet isolates, go ahead and 3-bet, and call down. Do this with any pocket pair. If you hit a set, then you can raise, but otherwise just call down. You can do this with any other pocket pair and just about any ace.

If the 3-bet is unlikely to isolate, then you must fold.

silencio · #8 10-07-2005, 11:22 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Sharpie's right, this is not the line to take with deuces. Here's a challenge: try to find a hand, other than the Hammer, that the maniac could have against which Hero is even a moderate favourite. I don't think there are many. If the guy is raising with 80% of his hands, there is no reason to rush in with deuces. Pick a better spot, and isolate when you've got him dead to rights.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, the hero's a moderate favorite against AJo -- that's probably in his 80% range. The hero's a moderate favorite against KTo -- also probably in the villain's 80% range. The hero's a moderate favorite against A7o. Even against AKs, it's pretty much 50/50. If a villain is raising 80% of his hands, 22 is going to be a slight favorite or 50/50 with a vast majority of them, and a dog against very few.

Aaron W.'s got it right. If a 3-bet isolates, go ahead and 3-bet, and call down. Do this with any pocket pair. If you hit a set, then you can raise, but otherwise just call down. You can do this with any other pocket pair and just about any ace.

If the 3-bet is unlikely to isolate, then you must fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was always wondering about that. Isolating a maniac with a (against a normal raise) marginal hand. What do you do if you reraise with 66 and villain hits 7 for his A7o. What if you try again, with say Axs (or do you only do it with pp?) and villain turned out to have AK. how many times will try to isolate a maniac ?

SocialWelfareIV · #9 10-07-2005, 11:34 AM

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I was always wondering about that. Isolating a maniac with a (against a normal raise) marginal hand. What do you do if you reraise with 66 and villain hits 7 for his A7o. What if you try again, with say Axs (or do you only do it with pp?) and villain turned out to have AK. how many times will try to isolate a maniac ?

[/ QUOTE ]

You isolate a maniac every chance you can when you have the appropriate type of hand -- one with showdown value. Maniacs are spewing chips -- just tie the noose and let them hang themselves. They're going to hit some hands against you, but you're winning money in the long run against a maniac that is betting every hand postflop, from both the maniac and the blinds.

You have to be careful with postflop play, though. Some maniacs will slow down if they're played back at, so it's not always right to really push (and by this I mean multiple capped streets) your slightly better than marginal holdings. This is dependant on type of maniac though.

Aaron W. · #10 10-07-2005, 11:40 AM

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What do you do if you reraise with 66 and villain hits 7 for his A7o.

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Then you lose this hand.

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What if you try again, with say Axs (or do you only do it with pp?) and villain turned out to have AK.

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Then you lose another one.

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how many times will try to isolate a maniac ?

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As many times as I have a hand worthy of an isolation attempt.

Playing against a maniac means gambling when you have the best of it. If a player is raising 80% of his hands, then the chances of your suited ace being dominated is quite small. The A2-AA hands account for 54 out of the 1326 starting hands - so 80% PFR means that the chances of you being dominated is approximately 54/1061 = 5%. That's a gambling edge worth pursuing. Sometimes he gets lucky and you lose. That's how the game works.