interesting QQ fold.. thoughts?

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
It's only 125 back to you... I think you have implied odds to look for a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

good luck folding a 10 high flop though with all that money out there. i cant make myself do that. im not quite that good yet. holla

[LBJ]

It's not a min-raise. The re-raiser but in 300 chips, but he had already limped. The pot is this:

Blinds = 75
Villian call = 50
Hero raise = 175
Villian re-raise = 300

Pot = 600

Hero must call 175 into a 600 chip pot, representing 3.4-1 odds. If Villian is known to have KK or AA, you need to be sure you can win about 1,250 chips in the pot. This isn't possible, because both of your stacks are under 1,100. I think a fold looks correct here.

[microbet]

I guess you're right about the bets. You'd think we could read a HH by now.

It is possible to get the implied odds though, because the other blinds and HERO's 175 don't count as part of his stack anymore and thus contribute towards the 1250.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's only 125 back to you... I think you have implied odds to look for a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

good luck folding a 10 high flop though with all that money out there. i cant make myself do that. im not quite that good yet. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm in the camp of "call, fold if you don't flop a set" contingent here, if i don't really know anything about my opponent.

dude, you need to work on being able to make the fold on the flop if you are "good enough" to make hte fold preflop. seriously, wtf.

i fold here aproximately 0% of the time, getting >4:1 on the immediate money, and clearly if the flop comes with a Q on it, you're getting paid even more about 95% of the time.

citanul

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's only 125 back to you... I think you have implied odds to look for a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

good luck folding a 10 high flop though with all that money out there. i cant make myself do that. im not quite that good yet. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

i'm in the camp of "call, fold if you don't flop a set" contingent here, if i don't really know anything about my opponent.

dude, you need to work on being able to make the fold on the flop if you are "good enough" to make hte fold preflop. seriously, wtf.

i fold here aproximately 0% of the time, getting >4:1 on the immediate money, and clearly if the flop comes with a Q on it, you're getting paid even more about 95% of the time.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

im not sure if my math is correct, but im pretty sure u need something like 8 to 1 to call for a set.. yes im ignoring implied, but.. seriously man, not many people are going to see a board of J73 and fold when he bets half the pot. i dont care who you are. i really dont like calling 'to flop a set'. if yer claling, i need a better reason than that. holla

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
im not sure if my math is correct, but im pretty sure u need something like 8 to 1 to call for a set.. yes im ignoring implied, but.. seriously man, not many people are going to see a board of J73 and fold when he bets half the pot. i dont care who you are. i really dont like calling 'to flop a set'. if yer claling, i need a better reason than that. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

er, you can't just ignore implied odds, particularly when you have a very strong reason to believe the other player has AA or KK.

btw, we didn't say "call to see if you flop a set" we said to call, and flop a set. you must need to get your luckbox reconfigured or something.

being able to fold to the flop bet when you know you're beaten is just one of those things you have to learn to do. i make a fold of some overpair in a spot like this every day or two. depends how much poker i'm playing [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

citanul

[The Don]

Easy fold, I wouldnt even call with the implied odds. Late game stealing FE is more important. In fact, I fold this at the $22s, a reraise that small is an instant sign of AA or KK from my experience.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
yes im ignoring implied,

[/ QUOTE ]

Implied odds are a huge factor here especially since you put him on a big pair, that he won't be able to fold post-flop, on a Q high flop. However, you should be able to fold post flop if you won't hit, which is tough, but doable (you are able to fold it PF, why not post?).

Also, some of the equity calculations on this thread are off. You are getting the right price in terms of implied odds. The overlay is not huge, but it's there. I believe that folding PF is not exploiting villain's weakness to the full, which is, in other words, leaving money on the table. I love it when players make those smalllish reraises with big hands. It's very exploitable.

[raptor517]

folding 77 on a 236 flop isnt the same as folding QQ on a J63 flop. holla

[citanul]

it is when you know the guy has AA or KK...
all depends on how sure you can be.
if you can't be that sure with the guy, then you shouldn't be folding preflop...

citanul