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  #11  
Old 12-28-2005, 12:53 PM
SomethingClever SomethingClever is offline
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Default Re: 3rd barrel against massive donkey

[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, I wouldn't bet the turn. If he bets, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not good against this opponent, IMO.

Perhaps I didn't make my read clear enough. He will bet if I check. He donkbets more than anyone I've ever seen. He will bet with nothing, or next to nothing.

Example.

I have AQ or something. Flop QT4. He donks, I raise. Turn: 5. He donks, I raise. River: 4. He donks again. He has K4o.

He has donkbluffed the river with 8 high against me.

When you also consider the fact that he plays 85% of his hands and takes tons of them to showdown unimproved, check/folding QJo on the turn here is not a good plan.

Am I wrong?
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  #12  
Old 12-28-2005, 01:07 PM
hemstock hemstock is offline
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Default Re: 3rd barrel against massive donkey

Then get a showdown value hand like Q9+ and get to a showdown against him no matter what. If you improve, bet and raise. If not, call down. I can't see any other way to play against these kind of opponents.
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  #13  
Old 12-28-2005, 02:24 PM
oxymoron oxymoron is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 66
Default Re: 3rd barrel against massive donkey

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, I wouldn't bet the turn. If he bets, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not good against this opponent, IMO.

Perhaps I didn't make my read clear enough. He will bet if I check. He donkbets more than anyone I've ever seen. He will bet with nothing, or next to nothing.

Example.

I have AQ or something. Flop QT4. He donks, I raise. Turn: 5. He donks, I raise. River: 4. He donks again. He has K4o.

He has donkbluffed the river with 8 high against me.

When you also consider the fact that he plays 85% of his hands and takes tons of them to showdown unimproved, check/folding QJo on the turn here is not a good plan.

Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

Against this opponent then it's okay. I'd still prefer to have A7+ or K7+ but QJo would be okay.

I also assume that he doesn't raise unless he has something so you let your Queen high go if he raises?
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  #14  
Old 12-28-2005, 02:36 PM
peterchi peterchi is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Delaware/Michigan/Baltimore
Posts: 150
Default Re: 3rd barrel against massive donkey

I like it all the way. I hope you just sucked out on his T2o, and he'll probably still call with that.

But yeah we're folding to a river raise, right?
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  #15  
Old 12-28-2005, 02:39 PM
SomethingClever SomethingClever is offline
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Default Re: 3rd barrel against massive donkey

[ QUOTE ]
I also assume that he doesn't raise unless he has something so you let your Queen high go if he raises?

[/ QUOTE ]

I only saw him raise a few times, and he showed down some strong hands each time he did. At the time this hand went down, I don't think I had seen him raise yet. If he's gonna bluff, it's going to be a donkbluff. Or a bluff-call.

He hadn't checkraised either.

Results:

He thought for a long time and called with king high, no kicker. His hand was good.

He eventually went broke, of course, but I didn't get any of the 50ish bets he dropped during the session.

I think there may be merit to check/calling the turn and donking the river here. But in any case, I think betting the river is probably correct, or a small mistake. I think he folds K high (or calls with worse than Q high) just about enough to make it worth it.

Later in the session, he actually did fold the flop a few times... of course I tended to have a huge hand when he did this, omfg, rigged.
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  #16  
Old 12-28-2005, 02:40 PM
imported_leader imported_leader is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Around Boston
Posts: 510
Default Re: 3rd barrel against massive donkey

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Therefore, I wouldn't bet the turn. If he bets, fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not good against this opponent, IMO.

Perhaps I didn't make my read clear enough. He will bet if I check. He donkbets more than anyone I've ever seen. He will bet with nothing, or next to nothing.

Example.

I have AQ or something. Flop QT4. He donks, I raise. Turn: 5. He donks, I raise. River: 4. He donks again. He has K4o.

He has donkbluffed the river with 8 high against me.

When you also consider the fact that he plays 85% of his hands and takes tons of them to showdown unimproved, check/folding QJo on the turn here is not a good plan.

Am I wrong?

[/ QUOTE ]

My problem is the board and the pot size. You're beaten a lot here already and your hand is extremely vulnerable. If you are beaten, you're often drawing very thin. In addition, you have to put 2 more BB into the pot. I think there's value in just giving up here. I could be wrong. It might be a little +EV, but even the slightest thing could swing it if it is. For example, if this guy ever checks through worse hands on the river (assuming you don't bet, which would be the case on most rivers) that makes this situation much worse for you.
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