20-40 commerce........when the [censored] hits the fan

[riverboatking]

ok the table is pretty weak with the exception of villian (different from first post) who is a very aggressive player who likes to make big moves.

i'm in the BB w/89h and ~9K i have the table covered.
MP1 is a very weak loose player with ~3K.
MP2 is a pretty straightfoward player with ~3K.
villian has ~6K and is on the button.

three callers SB folds i check.

flop A-9-10 two hearts.
checked around.

turn As (A-9-10).

i lead for $300, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, villian raises to $1200.

i reraise to 3K.

thoughts, comments.

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]
i lead for $300, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, villian raises to $1200.

i reraise to 3K.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't like it. If a move were to be made, I think the flop would have been the time to make it.

The only time I would even consider this type of move is if (a) I can read villian well enough to know he doesn't have that strong of a hand and (b) if he's capable of laying down when being played back at.

As it is, your draw is weakened by the turn and it looks like you were trying to make up for the lack of action on the flop by going gonzo on the turn.

Garland

[coltrane]

[ QUOTE ]

The only time I would even consider this type of move is if (a) I can read villian well enough to know he doesn't have that strong of a hand

[/ QUOTE ]


how strong of a hand can he have if he checked the flop on the button?

[Garland]

[ QUOTE ]

how strong of a hand can he have if he checked the flop on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

You've never seen villians slowplay monster hands on the button?

Garland

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
You've never seen villians slowplay monster hands on the button?

[/ QUOTE ]

what monster hand are you slowplaying on the button, with four players in front of you and a flop of A-9-10 two hearts?

you checking a set on this flop?
what exactly is your plan if a King, Queen, 8, 6 or heart shows up?

i've seen plenty of people slowplay hands on the button, but this is one situation where you won't ever see it.

[Greeksquared]

I really don't understand why you think you must bet out on a draw heavy board on the flop. You don't have to do anything if you are a good player and can get away from a big hand. There is nothing wrong with checking a draw heavy board with a set. This can add deception. I am not saying you should always check, but its not bad if you do. This is especially true with deep stacks.

Of course with idiots backing there stack with top pair, it would be a good idea to bet here.

[fanmail]

[ QUOTE ]
i check the flop looking to checkraise, that doesn't work out so know i lead on the turn...get two callers and a raise, then i reraise...i'm the only one in the hand that could reasonable have checked the flop and now it must look like a have monster...no?

[/ QUOTE ]

You say that, yet if that is what you portray and they still call you then you should feel beat, no? If they know you had planned a checkraise by leading big on the turn and they still call you, you should fear mp1 at least.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
You say that, yet if that is what you portray and they still call you then you should feel beat, no? If they know you had planned a checkraise by leading big on the turn and they still call you, you should fear mp1 at least.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats one way to look at it.

of course another way to look at it would be MP1 didn't really review the way the hand played out, he simply looked at his two cards, looked at the board, and called.

in fact after the hand it inspired me to coin a brand new phrase that i'm sure will explode on the poker scene: "calling station". just hope i can patent it, before someone tries to claim it for their own.

[riverboatking]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like it. If a move were to be made, I think the flop would have been the time to make it.

[/ QUOTE ]

1.) how can i make a move on the flop when i'm first to act and its checked around?
2.) on the flop i have no reason to believe the field is weak because i haven't seen them act yet, its only after they all check such a draw heavy board that i sense weakness.

[ QUOTE ]
The only time I would even consider this type of move is if (a) I can read villian well enough to know he doesn't have that strong of a hand and (b) if he's capable of laying down when being played back at.

[/ QUOTE ]

it doesn't take much hand reading skill to be able to say villian is weak. what possible hand can he check with on that flop? can he check a set? two pair? even a lone ace?

and what about MP1 and MP2 what range of hands do you put them on after they check that flop then just call on the turn?

now think about what i'm representing. i check the flop looking to checkraise, that doesn't work out so know i lead on the turn...get two callers and a raise, then i reraise...i'm the only one in the hand that could reasonable have checked the flop and now it must look like a have monster...no?

[coltrane]

nh, button most likely has nothing, if MP2 had anything he really liked he would've raised....your raise should win the pot most times....