Is this type of move part of your game?

[schwza]

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So right now the part of my game I am working on is actively finding spots to pick off bluffs.

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i don't understand. pick off bluffs = call bluffs.

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If he has Kx, he almost certainly cannot call my raise. So his bet is a bluff, and I pick it off by forcing him off his better hand.

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When you do this, unless your opponent is "bluffing" allin, your hand doesn't matter.


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huh?

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My phrasing is unclear, I guess. Basically what I mean is, if your opponent bluffs allin, and you are fairly certain he has jack high, there's not much you can do (because he might be bluffing with king high or queen high). But if he just bets, you can raise with your jack high getting him to fold what is the better hand (which of course he doesn't know).

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ok, apparently i don't know what "picking off a bluff" means. thought it was only calling and not re-bluffing as well.

nice link on strassa's overbet thread, btw.

[schwza]

i do this pretty rarely, and only against guys that i've seen lead out a lot of flops like this in the past, and then either fold to a raise or check/fold the turn. it's incredibly satisfying, because i'm usually the one leading with air (especially into paired flops) and then having to fold .

Another option is to do what you would probably actually do with a 9: call. This will make it very difficult for him to bluff at it again, plus will give you a chance to move all in on the turn, since some sort of draw will be present, making it look like you just want to take it down there, with your 9. Of course, if he bets again, then you'll probably regret it. This play is much better if the stacks are larger. One more bet would pot-commmit him, so it would be too late to raise/bluff on the turn.

[fnord_too]

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I am somewhere between the second and third option.

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What percent of the time do you have to succeed to do this with a truly air hand? Obviously when you get called you basically have zero pot equity. Any time your ICM $EV > 0? How much cushion do you want to give yourself? You can never be entirely sure of your opponents call range.

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If I had to guess, I would say this push works 80-90% of the time I try it, which means I probably don't do it enough. If I have been folding a lot lately, I think I have to make this sort of move because 1. it should get more respect and 2. I need to fight back somewhere or I might as well wear a please rape me sign.

Opponents call range is the big thing, as you note. So many people don't think about how they will respond to a raise before they bet. I love it and hate it. I love seeing people making big mistakes, but I hate having such a poor idea of my FE.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

No f'in way I do that. Let him have the pot. Might consider that if I had a strong Ax and a great read, but I am likely folding if my read is not there or not strong. That is FPS and it has cost me more than I would win when I tried it in the past.

[microbet]

Hmm, you left off "I only do this when I'm drunk" so I voted never. Aren't there enough opportunities to semi-rebluff, that you don't have to re-post-oak-bluff?

[sofere]

Isn't a post-oak bluff betting a small amount into a big pot to represent a huge hand that wants action? If so, how is this a re-post-oak bluff?

I need to have seen villain take the line bet/fold on a paired flop before I do this. I suspect that if I were better at hand-reading, this wouldn't be necessary.

[microbet]

You are right. I'm an idiot. Are you happy? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

I thought post-oak bluff was total bluff with no hand or outs. I'll have to change that to just a re-bluff I guess.

[MegaBet]

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Why is the SB pot committed? He has almost 2100 left.

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He has 600 invested wih a little over 600 to call with 2 cards to come. The fact that he has 2100 left should HELP the decision to call as it won't cripple him. This is so obvious to me.