Ethics of player revealing cards

[QuikSand]

I played in an in-person hold 'em tournament, and my neighbor (on my immediate left) had a bad habit of holding his cards far away when he looked at them. Frequently (at least half the time) I could see at least one of the cards when he looked, often even if I wasn't making an effort to do so. (The gambler's eye is just reflexively drawn to an exposed card, it seems)

So, at one point, I mention this to him -- he thanks me, adjusts his behavior very modestly, and continues to flash his cards a full 18 inches away from him and pretty wide open. This continues for well over two hours.


I'm a pretty friendly card player -- while I play to win, I don't want to be a total jackass about it. In this case, this player was a nice enough guy, but he was also a threat in the tournament.

What is the consensus thing to do here? It sure would be nice to occasionaly sneak a look at his card(s) when he'll possibly be in a hand with me. I could certainly use that advantage in a big hand.

But, I don't really want to gain that advantage that way. And I definitely don't want to be caught doing so -- I've invested a good deal of time with my image (clean, positive, thoughtful player) with this particular group, and I'm not looking to screw that up with something picayune like this.


Is the smart thing to do to mention it again, maybe more forcefully, and just do my best to ignore it? (In actuality, I basically just shut up, occasionally glanced at his cars as he was in hands without me, but deliberately looked away when I was in the hand)

[Dominic]

you mentioned it to him - twice - and he was still flashing the cards. It's every player's responsibility to protect his cards. If your neighbor won't do that, it's his own fault if you can see his hand.

Peek away.

[scottjack]

I'd agree, if he doesn't protect his hand, especially after having it brought up to him a number of times, it's his own fault for any misfortune he gets from players that are able to act on information he's giving out.

However, I have a similar question: what if a player purposefully shows his cards, when the action is to him, prior to announcing any intentions ?

I was in a NL tourney sponsored by a local pub, when I flopped top pair (aces), not great kicker. I bet, not a huge bet, but apparently enough to get everyone but the player to my immediate right to fold. The one remaining guy asks me, "Do you have an ace?" I replied, "As far as you know, yes."

He surprises me by turning over his cards, which I took to be either a fold, or an all-in. He says that he hasn't announced his intentions and that his hand is still active. I noticed that his kicker was worse than mine. I asked the dealer whether this should be taken as all in or not, which I suppose was the guy's intention the whole time, to see how I reacted to his turning over the cards.

Since I appeared to want him to call, he knew he was beaten, and announced, "fold"

Obviously I gave him too much information by even reacting at all, but what do the rules say, (if anything) about a player turning his cards over in this fashion?

[dealer_toe]

there was a post about this last week i think. to me it seems to be against the rules and bad etiquett, and in many tournaments now it is a penalty for announcing your cards or showing them. But the post found that it is a game to game thing and can be a legal action. To me tho, its pretty shady to do that.

[jzpiano14]

To my knowledge, if you are the last person to act for the hand, like calling an all in with nobody else to call, it isn't against the rules to flip your cards over, if you claim that you haven't made your decision. Though I also agree that it is shady, and shouldn't be allowed. I'm like 75% sure of this, but if someone knows differently feel free to correct me.

If the player continues to show you his cards, use to it your advantage, IMO

[Svenungson]

This sounds like a regular homegame i play in semi-weekly. We are a happy bunch playing NL Holdem for fun, we all buy in for 10-20$ and play for a couple of hours friday night.
Even though i personally do not like it people have a tendency to do stupid things like showing their folded hands when there are still people active in the hand, i do not want to be a jackass about it and tell people to stop doing it, i also feel i have the ability to actually use this information to my advantage so for me it is no big deal even though i find it annoying.
Yesterday i was in a hand with two other people and on the turn i bet and one player folded and when whe did so she showed her card to her neighboor before mucking. The player to my left asked if he could see the cards as well and she replied that he could and he actually leaned over the table and simply bent the cards upward. I saw his hand and knew his intentions and had to make a choice, either i tell him to stop (or look away) or i glance at the cards which would obviously have put me in a more informed situation than the guy remaining in the hand.
I choosed to hold my hand over the cards as he bent them up and told him friendly that he should be more discrete about flashing cards since i was still in the hand.
If i would have told him so in a hand i was not in myself i think the others would have thought i was a stiff that took this friendly game to seriously but since i was actually in the hand i think my point was made in a positive way towards all these recreational players and i actually won respect by doing so.
My point is, in homegames, very often, people play only for fun and are not to strict about these types of things and sometimes it is better to bite the bullet and shut up about rules this and rules that. Pick a time to point out things like this that will not make you look like you take the game to serious.

[yocalif]

Well the 1st thing u mentioned is that he is you friend or neighbor. You should really want to help him, and don't give up, until he gets it. Of course he might be a total idiot and beyond help, and you will have to act accordingly.

One story:
Playing in a tourney satellite, one fellow had mirrored sun glasses, the the shape and the angle I was sitting across from him, I could see his cards when he peaked at them. I busted him out of the satellite, and when he was away from the table I bust out laughing, and was asked why? I explained about his mirrored glasses, and 3 other locals started laughing, they knew about his glasses as well, so did many other locals. Apparently his unnecessary handicap didn't totally ruin him, I saw 2 pictures on the wall where he had won two local tournaments.

[Yobz]

[ QUOTE ]
Well the 1st thing u mentioned is that he is you friend or neighbor. You should really want to help him, and don't give up, until he gets it. Of course he might be a total idiot and beyond help, and you will have to act accordingly.

One story:
Playing in a tourney satellite, one fellow had mirrored sun glasses, the the shape and the angle I was sitting across from him, I could see his cards when he peaked at them. I busted him out of the satellite, and when he was away from the table I bust out laughing, and was asked why? I explained about his mirrored glasses, and 3 other locals started laughing, they knew about his glasses as well, so did many other locals. Apparently his unnecessary handicap didn't totally ruin him, I saw 2 pictures on the wall where he had won two local tournaments.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is why I either
1) Never look at my cards
or 2) Never wear sunglasses [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[smoore]

I believe that in modern card-room tournaments if someone could have seen the players cards the dealer/floor can declare it dead. You MUST protect your cards in a "real" tournament. If you want to protect your rep, you did the right thing by purposefully looking away when he exposed his cards. If you don't like him (or don't know him), stare right at the damn things, IMO.

[spentrent]

I think it's a great tactic. I love to flip over AK and ask the guy who wants to put me all-in if he wants me to call.

Isn't psychological prodding part of the game? It's just like flashing your bluff to piss off a guy who folded two pair to your 27.

I don't see how showing the guy your cards while you're figuring out what to do has any adverse effect on the game.