J8s

[oreogod]

Eh, I bet the river (dont know if thats kosher or not, but eh). Besides that nice hand.

[marsvolta619]

Does anyone consider raising this from the button preflop?

[StellarWind]

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Does anyone consider raising this from the button preflop?

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I think that has no technical merit in terms of cards. It would purely be an exercise in exploiting opponents who fold much too much. Without reads on anyone I don't see how you can go there.

I'm OK with the preflop call against one loose limper and blinds who don't raise a huge amount--typical 5/10 opponents.

The turn decision is difficult without reads and there is a case for all three actions:

1. Fold: This is a bad turn card because it destroyed your outs. BB has gone beyond the point where many players will keep pushing a low pocket or unimproved high cards on this scary board. Plus it always looked like a good board for him compared to your weak jack. If both opponents are decent players then your pot equity does not warrant paying two more for a showdown. Each opponent is individually favored to be ahead and when you are ahead they have a ton of outs. Meanwhile you probably have very few outs.

2. Call: The free showdown play looks good because a 3-bet probably means you are drawing dead, but if the river is bad (e.g. A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]) you could probably save by calling and folding the river. Also if you call it will be two bets to you on the river a significant amount and that's another chance to save a bet. Finally there is always some risk in raising with no reads. For instance a stop-n-go river bet would be awkward because you won't know what it means.

3. Raise: Has potential to collect extra bets from draws and possibly force out a hand like Ax ahead of the river.

Betting the river was always questionable as I think you are behind too much. Losing your kicker on the river is absolutely the last straw and should end all thoughts of betting.

[joker122]

you said it best: i can raise the turn because folding to a 3bet is easy.

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Betting the river was always questionable as I think you are behind too much. Losing your kicker on the river is absolutely the last straw and should end all thoughts of betting.

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yeah, i didn't even think the river was debatable but many people like a bet here. i still don't.


pfr had AQ, other guy had QT and his hand was good.

[imported_Robert Andersson]

This is standard! Well played.