30/60 purebluff JTs vs ihardlyknowher (2+2er)

baronzeus · #1 11-10-2005, 04:44 PM

Button here is "ihardlyknowher" a 2+2er. He knows who I am and vice versa. MP2 is kind of a tard but will probably fold without an ace. What do you guys think?

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (7 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP2 calls, 1 fold, Button calls, 2 folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, MP2 calls, Button raises, Hero calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero immediately bets...

IndieMatty · #2 11-10-2005, 04:50 PM

What is MP2s range of cold-calling hands from an UTG raiser? He doesn't look to be going anywhere.

ihardlyknowher · #3 11-10-2005, 06:07 PM

I don't remember this hand. I must have a pocket pair here. I am only folding the river if my PP < 77. Did I fold?

eviljeff · #4 11-10-2005, 07:56 PM

I think a c/r here is a better bluff - I'm guessing you were worried about it being checked through?

DeeJ · #5 11-10-2005, 08:11 PM

isn't this just a 'bluff bet the scare card' hand?

elindauer · #6 11-10-2005, 08:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think a c/r here is a better bluff - I'm guessing you were worried about it being checked through?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course a check-raise is more likely to succeed, but it's twice as costly when it fails. Do you still stand by this statement? You think that getting 6:1 on a 1 bet bluff here, you do better by check-raising getting 7:2 because you odds of winning improve so dramatically?

I'm not convinced either way, I'm just trying to point out that the extra wins come at a steep price, to try to frame the argument between the two bluffs better. If I did take a stand though, I'd say that the bet out looks a lot more profitable than the check-raise to me.

-eric

baronzeus · #7 11-10-2005, 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't remember this hand. I must have a pocket pair here. I am only folding the river if my PP < 77. Did I fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

i bet, MP2 folded, and you thought for about 25 seconds (timer ticked to 3 seconds left) and you called the turn. the river action, I bet again (I regretted betting IMMEDIATELY and felt horrible for doing so) you called, showed 88 and YHIG.

ihardlyknowher · #8 11-10-2005, 09:17 PM

I should have probably raised the turn for a free SD here. You agree? (assuming your cards are unknown, of course)

DeathDonkey · #9 11-10-2005, 09:33 PM

No I think this would be very bad. What you did is good. But of course that is because he bluffed the river too.

-DeathDonkey

eviljeff · #10 11-10-2005, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think a c/r here is a better bluff - I'm guessing you were worried about it being checked through?

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course a check-raise is more likely to succeed, but it's twice as costly when it fails. Do you still stand by this statement? You think that getting 6:1 on a 1 bet bluff here, you do better by check-raising getting 7:2 because you odds of winning improve so dramatically?

I'm not convinced either way, I'm just trying to point out that the extra wins come at a steep price, to try to frame the argument between the two bluffs better. If I did take a stand though, I'd say that the bet out looks a lot more profitable than the check-raise to me.

-eric

[/ QUOTE ]

right, I think the extra show of strength (making a fold much more likely) makes up for the decreased pot odds. I'm not familiar with the play at this level, but donking here does not look like an A to me. also, villain might possibly bluff-raise a bet, but will almost certainly not bluff-3bet a c/r.