QTs from UTG+1

Saborion · #1 07-12-2005, 02:18 AM

Party 20/40. 9-handed.

MP2 (pretty loose, "average" aggression) posts blind. CO posts blind.
BB, if I recall correctly, didn't have awful stats.
SB was unknown.

I've got Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] UTG+1 and open-limps. Folded to the posters that checks. Button (36/17/1.5 after 140 hands) raises. Both blinds call, I call, MP2 calls, CO folds. 5 to the flop.

10 SB [7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]]
SB checks, BB checks, I bet, MP2 calls, button raises and everyone calls. 5 to the turn.

10 BB [7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
SB check, BB checks, I check, MP2 check, button bets, SB folds, BB calls, I call, MP2 calls. 4 to the river.

14 BB [7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
BB checks, I check, MP2 checks, button bets, BB folds.

ike · #2 07-12-2005, 02:26 AM

I'd fold. I'd also raise preflop.

Guido · #3 07-12-2005, 02:56 PM

With 2 posters I would raise this preflop.

I can't come up with a hand that you can beat that would bet the river or would he bet 88, 99, KQs on the river again? I would probably fold the river even though the pot is big.

Thanks,

Guido

Saborion · #4 07-12-2005, 07:54 PM

I folded. MP2 called.
Button flips over T8o and MP2 56cc.

The reason I posted was because I was unsure about the preflop limp. I wasn't sure my hand was good enough for a raise, but since I believed it was good enough to play, I should try to get the posters to fold, right?

On the flop, no one mentioned a check-raise instead of a bet, which I assume means it doesn't matter much. I bet since I didn't want it to get checked through. I called the turn since I figured I had odds to draw, expecting to be behind.

The river... I'm curious. Couldn't he have played a pair of 9's like that up until the river, then firing out again, trying to push someone like me out? Would that be a bad play? If not, then he should be able to make the same play with KTs-JTs, and if so, don't we have a call? Even if we remove 99 from his possible holdings it would be very close. Or do the MP2 still make it a fold?

Side question. Would you ever play KQhh like that?

MrStretchie · #5 07-12-2005, 08:09 PM

Why don't you re-raise the flop here? Decent chance of folding out MP2, which you should be looking for with a good but very vulnerable hand in a large pot. Also gives you a good idea of whether button is buying a free card or has a ten.

Good check/call on the turn. You have odds to continue, so no reason to bet and risk getting raised.

I would call the river. MP2 could easily have missed a flush or straight draw. And button could certainly have 9T or TJ often enough to make it profitable in this large pot. If MP2 raises it behind you then fold - no way he's raising without at least an ace here.

Oh, and the preflop limp is fine. QTs doesn't have enough equity to be raising it from early position, *especially with posters, because it's likely you'll thin the field too much*, but it's a good multiway hand, and this one's guaranteed to be multiway with all the posters. If you catch a straight or flush draw here you want them around.

MrStretchie · #6 07-12-2005, 08:11 PM

There you go - glad I didn't read this before my reply. "Button could have T9 or TJ" .. or even T8 I guess. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

bernie · #7 07-12-2005, 08:25 PM

Someone raises preflop late, you're in early, decent sized field, this screams for a check raise on the flop or turn.

b

MrStretchie · #8 07-12-2005, 08:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Someone raises preflop late, you're in early, decent sized field, this screams for a check raise on the flop or turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh wow yes, I didn't realize this was raised preflop. Agreed. Might as well checkraise flop, not turn - you'd be giving gutshots 6.5 to one.

Given the flop play, you agree with the check/call on the turn, right? (ala checking hands with outs)

Net Warrior · #9 07-12-2005, 09:27 PM

(1) raised preflop to limit the field
(2) failing to raise, check-raise on the flop to limit the field
(3) given the way you played, I'd strongly consider a semi-bluff bet out on the turn to stop a free card.

Saborion · #10 07-12-2005, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Someone raises preflop late, you're in early, decent sized field, this screams for a check raise on the flop or turn.

b

[/ QUOTE ]
Early? Two players "in front" of me vs one player "behind" me (in relative position to the PFR). That plus the chance of it being checked through made me bet. Everyone seems to agree to a check-raise though, so I guess I have a fundamental error in my play.