AsJs flush draw stay in or drop out?

[Hotchile]

The poster mentioned that the game was usually quite stable and that most players played reasonably well post-flop. Given the action that occurred, is it possible that AJ could have won the pot along the road? How about a limp-raise pre-flop with that many callers and then a flop checkraise? I don't know how the KQ would respond to this type of pressure nor do I know what the counterfeited 2 pair does at the river. I suspect he would call based on the size of the pot but would the extra 2 small bets have given AJs a chance to win this pot?

Larry

[mikelow]

[Ulysses]

would the extra 2 small bets have given AJs a chance to win this pot?

Nothing he could do post-flop, but there's a chance a pre-flop raise would have been enough.

It was a little hard to tell, but I think the pre-flop action went something like:

UTG limps
Mikey limps w/ AJs
Limper (MP)
Raiser (LP)
Cutoff calls (Q4)
SB calls (QK)
BB calls
UTG calls
Mikey calls
Limper after Mikey calls?

(Mikey, you mention 5 callers of the raise, but 8 see the flop.)

Flop:

SB checks
BB checks
UTG leaves
Mikey checks
MP checks
LP bets
Cutoff raises w/ Q4
SB 3-bets w/ QK
BB folds
Mikey moves over a couple of seats
MP and LP fold
Mikey calls

Details and joking aside, it went something like that.

Once the flop comes, QK isn't going anywhere. However, if Mikey raises pre-flop and the raiser 3-bets, both Q4 and QK might be out. Though, by the sounds of this game, QK might still be around. I think there's a good chance Mikey could have won this pot with a raise pre-flop, but there's also a chance he'd end up getting called down by pre-flop raiser and lose to AK or pocket pair.

The point that an earlier poster made still holds though. By raising here you build a bigger pot if it goes multi-way, which is fine, or you get people to fold and gain overcard value.

[PokerPrince]

Cap it! For the love of all humanity cap it!

PokerPrince

[bernie]

i alter my pre play with raising or calling...

"I want to gain info from the people behind me if they infact hold a raising hand (a better raising hand)"

this is a little off....the more limpers, the LOWER the raising standards may be behind you. *Player Dependent*...they could very well raise with a lesser raising hand...you dont gain much info from LP raisers unless theyre obvious what they raise with....in THAT case, this hand CAN/IS playing like some small stakes games...remember your description. higher the stake, id say the wider range of hands to tactically raise behind you.

im calling this flop....even if they all have sets i have 8 clean outs to the nuts. and id much rather have the heart on the turn, but unless the board pairs and subsequent action follows

the flop
im not worried about scaring other out, but i dont want it raised on my left either. id check hoping the preraiser bets, and raise....i wouldve capped it...probably is going to be anyway. then if i miss, check call the turn...

for the most part, im seeing the river with this draw...

b

[bernie]

"Folding isn't even a consideration!? "

youre not serious...are you?

b

[bernie]

i forgot about the limp reraise option preflop..hmmmm thanks for reminding me [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

b

[David Ottosen]

You want to fold the nut flush draw on the flop in a massive pot? If so, you are crazy.

[Dynasty]

Agreed. If you're considering folding the nut flush draw on an unpaired flop in an 8-handed pot raised pre-flop, then you are thinking about the wrong things during the play of the hand.

[JTG51]

Add me to the list that thinks folding would be insane.

By my math there's $110 in the pot and Mikey has to call $15. That's better than 7-1 on a 4-1 nut draw.

The worst case scenario is Mikey calls and for some reason the bettor and raiser fold, then the 3 bettor caps it with a set. Under this unlikely scenario he's getting almost 6-1 on a 5-1 draw. What more can you ask for?