Clueless with flop of AAK

Wynton · #1 09-09-2005, 05:33 PM

I really had no idea what I was doing here. Where'd I go wrong?

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG checks.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

sthief09 · #2 09-09-2005, 05:35 PM

I'd fold preflop unless he's aggressive. most people have decent standards UTG. this is one hand where I wouldn't hit the bet button unless he checked through the prior street. I don't see much use in the flop check-raise

Wynton · #3 09-09-2005, 05:36 PM

I had a vague sense that he was somewhat aggressive, so I felt ok about pf. But I have no idea why I c/r the flop.

TomBrooks · #4 09-10-2005, 08:48 AM

I'd check/call the flop and probably the rest of the way too. Looks like WA/WB. Raising often folds a worse hand that might have continued betting, and costs more when Villian has the Ace.

Transference · #5 09-10-2005, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like WA/WB

[/ QUOTE ]

This what popped into my head as well, Ill don't mind a c/c line here at all myself.

Wynton · #6 09-10-2005, 11:23 AM

I agree c/c makes sense.

Thinking about this again, I believe it is conceivable - though far-fetched - to come up with a justification for my line, assuming I was thinking on a level way above what I was actually doing.

Assume that I believe the villain is good, and I think he considers me good (call this the first wild assumption).

Initially, by calling the pf raise, he should figure I have a decent starting hand. When I c/r the flop, he should naturally assume that I do not have an A; since ordinarily I'd wait until the turn to raise him. But if he knows that I know that he's aware of that, then the c/r should throw him off. So, the c/r could operate as a bluff, then.

As the hand turned out, though, I think I should have either re-raised the turn, or led the river. For it is unlikely that he would raise the turn if HE has the Ace; once I c/r the flop, he should figure that he could count on me to lead the turn and the river. Unless, of course, he is pulling the same move that I presumably did on the flop.

It would have been fun to be thinking like that, but I was actually just flailing around wildly. Or maybe I was operating on a whole other level subconsciously? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

NAH.

Peter Harris · #7 12-07-2005, 12:59 PM

In my mind, that played out about as well as i could hope - the BB call is fine, the flop c/r worked nicely.

The turn is odd, and i'd call here but would hate a river bet too.

You know what i think? UTG had a king too. maybe JJ or something, but i think KQs/KQo/KJs/KJo/KTs is also possible. an Ace would definitely bet that river, KQ won't if savvy enough to see the kicker was just counterfeited.

I think it's a good hand, interested to see results. I think a K more often than JJ/TT/99 on a free SD turn raise.

EDIT: i've seen people dislike the flop c/r - i think it's good because it a) may confuse a tricky player ["no-one c/rs an ace here, but he may know i know that"], b) means i may be able to c/r trips in the future this way, c) may give us the momentum in the hand.

The lead-raise on the turn is confusing, but seeing the river, i think we could agree it's a free SD play, which is why my read is lumped for Kx/JJ-99.

Wynton · #8 12-07-2005, 01:11 PM

Peter, don't you have enough to read without resurrecting these old posts? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

When I get to my database, I'll look for this hand and let you know the actual results. Right now, I have no memory of it at all.

Wynton · #9 12-07-2005, 01:14 PM

Hah, I just realized I used pokerhand.org as a converter, making it easy for me to locate the hand. Villain here had JJ, so mhig.

krimson · #10 12-07-2005, 01:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Peter, don't you have enough to read without resurrecting these old posts? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

When I get to my database, I'll look for this hand and let you know the actual results. Right now, I have no memory of it at all.

[/ QUOTE ]
Peter didn't resurrect it, it was ninja bumped.