KJo in the BB

Absolute · #1 06-13-2005, 01:33 AM

I would like as many replies as possible to settle a dispute between myself and another small stakes player over a hand where we are holding K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the big blind.

Party .5/1

Preflop: Hero is BB with [K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], [J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 2 folds, CO calls, Button calls, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: (4.50 SB) [8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]], [K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]], [J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, CO calls, Button calls, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, CO calls, Button calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) [6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

River: (18.25 BB) [2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]] (4 players)
Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, Button raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls.

Final Pot: 26.25 BB

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This is a hand disputed by myself and another person, neither of us which were actually the Hero in this hand.

The two primary focuses are on the pre-flop play and the turn play.

Thoughts?

milesdyson · #2 06-13-2005, 01:37 AM

Did the hero have any reads on button or UTG+1? yh4674i2wjhszbvg

edit: nevermind, he should have 3-bet the turn, but preflop is not questionable. If button capped the turn I would probably check call the river.

Absolute · #3 06-13-2005, 01:40 AM

The poster of this hand states that he does not have enough hands on the villian yet.

So assume him to be the typical Party .5/1 player.

I think the turn is far from standard. What do you put the button on here?

istewart · #4 06-13-2005, 01:48 AM

With those two stuck in the middle I am really tempted to 3-bet the turn, calling down if capped. Assuming button plays KJ, J8, K8, and 88 this way (4 combos, 6 combos, 6 combos, 3 combos), I would say you're ahead enough of the time.

EDIT: This is not a completely solid assumption, however, as 88 is effectively the nuts while the two-pair hands are not.

Oh wow. Disregard everything I wrote. I thought there was only one raiser the whole time.

Quercus · #5 06-13-2005, 01:54 AM

Button wakes up on the turn with a raise after calling 3005 bets and hero bets into him on the river? That seems ill-advised to me.

milesdyson · #6 06-13-2005, 01:56 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Button wakes up on the turn with a raise after calling 3005 bets and hero bets into him on the river? That seems ill-advised to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought at first but with two callers there he has to have a set pretty damn often for us to not 3-bet (and he doesn't have 66/KK/JJ).

Quercus · #7 06-13-2005, 02:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Button wakes up on the turn with a raise after calling 3005 bets and hero bets into him on the river? That seems ill-advised to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what I thought at first but with two callers there he has to have a set pretty damn often for us to not 3-bet (and he doesn't have 66/KK/JJ).

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. 3bet and cry if he turns over 88.

Absolute · #8 06-13-2005, 02:03 AM

I agree. It doesn't seem that the villian is donkey playing a set enough here to make a 3bet incorrect. I think it is a big or king or worse two pair more than enough to make the 3bet for value.

But I am open to hear any further argument on this..
the person with whom I was arguing this hand over is pretty resolute in his opinion on the matter.

Smasharoo · #9 06-13-2005, 02:11 AM

But I am open to hear any further argument on this..
the person with whom I was arguing this hand over is pretty resolute in his opinion on the matter.

I hope that's not directed at me.

I just asked a question, I never even offered an oppinion on the turn play.

This is an easy raise pre-flop though on a loose passive table.

Absolute · #10 06-13-2005, 02:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]

But I am open to hear any further argument on this..
the person with whom I was arguing this hand over is pretty resolute in his opinion on the matter.

I hope that's not directed at me.

I just asked a question, I never even offered an oppinion on the turn play.

This is an easy raise pre-flop though on a loose passive table.

[/ QUOTE ]

The question you asked was "Anyway, the postflop action, do you really want to be three-betting top two on this turn with no reads? "

That is a very suggestive question.
I think three-betting the turn is a no-brainer.

And I think checking pre-flop in the BB is standard.