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#11
11-15-2005, 01:10 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I play it the same. The 3-bet preflop is completely without value against the pfr, and the BB coming along isn't a horrible proposition. [/ QUOTE ] I'm confused. If I'm not 3-betting this pre-flop, then I don't even wanna play it... [/ QUOTE ] 
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#12
11-15-2005, 01:18 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I play it the same. The 3-bet preflop is completely without value against the pfr, and the BB coming along isn't a horrible proposition. [/ QUOTE ] I'm confused. If I'm not 3-betting this pre-flop, then I don't even wanna play it... [/ QUOTE ] Gaining the initiative against a weak and very passive opponent seems pretty overrated here. Our 3-bet isn't for value against anything our opponent has, and dead money in the blinds is likely to make this a better than coinflip scenario. I'm loathe to fold it, but I've done a similar action with TT before. Perhaps folding both is appropriate.
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#13
11-15-2005, 01:31 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
If we three bet, the preflop raiser is going to cap with those hands that have us seriously in trouble, and just call with all other hands (AK, JJ, QQ, 10s maybe), which gives us more information about his hand, which will lead us to make better decisions on later streets. Also, I think it's good to have him isolated, and three betting certainly increases these chances. How flawed is my thinking?
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#14
11-15-2005, 01:46 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
Most all of my play is live, but I have gone MORE than 144 hands without seeing A-K,Q, or J and a pocketpair no higher than 6's. Well, my place deals a little slow but this was a 10 hour session so at least 230-280 hands.
I would not assume on 144 hands that he will only raise with hands you say. I would 3-bet this. If he has A's or K's , so be it. If he has AK, more likely, you can probably get him off the hand with position.And of course, a good run at other pp's mentioned) I think not 3-betting here is weak-tight. I'm not criticizing, we all make weak-tight mistakes sometimes, I did it last night not protecting K's with A on flop. (should've raised the lead-out). Sure, I would have lost the extra bet cause this guy will go to river to match kicker( he had J8 with 8 on board), but it was still a mistake. I think not 3-betting AK here is a mistake. IF he is as tight as you suspect and caps it, you should have pretty good idea where you stand.
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#15
11-15-2005, 01:49 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
Roland, your post arrived while I was typing mine so I didn't mean to be redundant. But , since we seem to think along same lines I , at least, dont' think your thinking is flawed whatsoever. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#16
11-15-2005, 01:57 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
ps. yours was a pre-flop question. What happens next is of no consequence. In fact, seeing that info can alter respones. One was response was about folding on flop, which I'm not disputing, but wasnt' what you ask.
I'm not raggin you for doing it, just pointing out something from experience.
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#17
11-15-2005, 03:42 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I play it the same. The 3-bet preflop is completely without value against the pfr, and the BB coming along isn't a horrible proposition. [/ QUOTE ] There are 5 players to Hero's left and he has AK. Three. Bet. [/ QUOTE ] You are possibly the stupidest small stakes poster ever. [/ QUOTE ] Thanks. And you're an idiot. If you would like to show mathematically how 140 hands is enough of a read to cold call with, and let in five people, most with position on you, with an offsuit unpaired hand that only makes one straight, be my guest.
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#18
11-15-2005, 03:50 PM
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Re: AKo against an ultra-tight UTG raise
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There are 5 players to Hero's left and he has AK. Three. Bet. [/ QUOTE ] If his range is JJ-AA, AK, shouldn't I fold instead? [/ QUOTE ] I think folding should certainly be considered if your read is solid enough. In middle position, I think the merits of a three-bet are much better than those of a cold-call. I'm usually three-betting unless I have reason to believe that 3% is rock-solid (if it's really 5% or something a fold here would be pretty bad). I think it's important to realize that by calling here we are essentially saying that we believe we have a reasonable amount of equity against the pfr. If that's the case, our equity should really be at least around 50% on average, in which case raising becomes an option. Since we can get the hand heads-up, buy the button, and gain the initiative when up against another AK or if the flop comes Q high and villain has JJ or TT or something, my thought is that if we think we should play we really do need to raise here.
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