AJ turn decision

pokerOpus · #1 06-28-2005, 04:55 AM

Button is a 75/25 and rather aggresive. SB is 75/7 and passive postflop.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero ?

I was confused about what to do here after getting raised and having the SB cold call. I hit one of my outs although it was not the one I wanted to see. Whats my play here?

admiralfluff · #2 06-28-2005, 05:03 AM

I would bet/call. From your descriptions it sounds like both of them could really have anything at this point.

lilkunta2 · #3 06-28-2005, 05:04 AM

really the play here is to check and fold to a bet. there is no way on God's green earth your hand is good right now. He wouldn't raise you on the flop WITHOUT AT LEAST A QUEEN so you hitting your jack is only cause for you to lose more money. really the play was to fold on the flop when you got raised i think, saves alot of heartache and money, and you are really only drawing to 3 outs (the aces) so pot odds wern't even there to call the raise. but what the [censored] do i know i can't beat a fat girl up a hill

lilkunta2 · #4 06-28-2005, 05:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet/call. From your descriptions it sounds like both of them could really have anything at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

poker opus i think this guy is totally wrong whoever posted thatthat sounds like the worst thing to do. check fold the turn 100% for the reasons i mentioned earlier. but remember,,, folding the flop to a raise was the best idea. remember, he cold called your raise before the flop AND raised you on the flop when a queen came out. its screaming somehting like KQ or QJ whatever it is, it's definalty a queen, you can't win unless you get more lucky than the pot is giving you so fold FOLD

don't take that guys advice.

also what do these nuymbers mean???
Button is a 75/25 and rather aggresive. SB is 75/7 and passive postflop.?????????

akvsaq · #5 06-28-2005, 05:13 AM

My thinking is ...if your read on the button is that he is capable of raising w/o a queen, and aggressive enough to be uncertain if he has you beat if he raised your turn, I'd check and call. If you bet and he raised again, you'd be hard pressed to continue. I believe if you are not sure of what to do when getting raised, check and call. If no reads and/or typical, I'd fold the flop.

admiralfluff · #6 06-28-2005, 05:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Quote:
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I would bet/call. From your descriptions it sounds like both of them could really have anything at this point.

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poker opus i think this guy is totally wrong whoever posted thatthat sounds like the worst thing to do. check fold the turn 100% for the reasons i mentioned earlier. but remember,,, folding the flop to a raise was the best idea. remember, he cold called your raise before the flop AND raised you on the flop when a queen came out. its screaming somehting like KQ or QJ whatever it is, it's definalty a queen, you can't win unless you get more lucky than the pot is giving you so fold FOLD

don't take that guys advice.

also what do these nuymbers mean???
Button is a 75/25 and rather aggresive. SB is 75/7 and passive postflop.?????????

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is a joke it's [censored] hilarious.

pokerOpus · #7 06-28-2005, 05:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]

also what do these nuymbers mean???
Button is a 75/25 and rather aggresive. SB is 75/7 and passive postflop.?????????

[/ QUOTE ]

The first number means these two douchebags play 75% of their hands preflop. The second number is the %age that they raise preflop.

I disagree with your statement that I will only be raised by a queen given the buttons playing style. He could have an 8, a 3, a pocket pair or just be bluffing.

admiralfluff · #8 06-28-2005, 05:29 AM

You should clarify your reads on aggression factors. As I said in my reply, I think the move against any player who is 75/25 and described as *aggressive* is bet/call, especially when you have a player who will call with any 2 padding.

One thing to note if you are using PT aggression factors as reads, is that they will be skewed significantly higher for tighter players. The factor is defined as ratio of bets/raises to checks/calls (you should probably select for postflop). This means a player with VPIP of 75 and AF of 1.5 on the flop is raising and betting far more marginal and poor holdings than a player with VPIP 18 and AF of 2.5 on the flop. Though they are calling proportionally more, they are seeing so many more hands (most of which are bad) that they are actually *more aggressive* with weaker holdings than the tight player who will have weaker holdings much less often. Just something you should know if you didn't already.

In this hand I think the move will most often be bet/call, unless of course SB wakes up, check/call the river if he raises and you're UI. More specific reads could swing it to a check/call for me, but with 2 players that loose, I think you know it would be a sin to fold.

halis123456789 · #9 06-28-2005, 07:25 AM

This doesn't look pretty. Kind of early to be raising with AJo don't you think? Well, hey I guess it all depends on your style.

What does this SB character have? 9's? T's? That would kinda make sense. The SB could be slowplaying a monster (hoping to C/R the beloved turn here) but I doubt he's that crafty.

The problem is the 75/25. You're out of position with a marginal hand. You've missed the flop.

You bet out and get raised. You've done your job, now you can fold I think. The problem is your reverse implied odds here. The 75/25 could very well have a Queen here or an 8, the problem is as the hand continues, he's only going to put in more bets and raises if he's winning. If he's not, he'll shut down.

Let it go on the flop.

-Halis
Keep it up.

lilkunta2 · #10 06-28-2005, 12:39 PM

sorry admiral it's not a [censored] joke im just trying to give some good advice and PROTECT PEOPLE FROM TAKING BAD ADVICE, WHICH IS WHAT YOU GAVE HIM, BAD ADVICE. your thinking is totally wrong and makes no sense.