I love 2+2! (sarcasm, long)

[beachbum]

So I start playing at Party in October of '03. I already read HEPFAP. Keep playing starting at 0.50/1, up to 1/2. Read TOP and Feeney's book. Never heard of www.twoplustwo.com or pokertracker. December of '03, I've progressed to 2/4. Continue to study the afore mentioned 2+2 books diligently while playing. My mentor/friend is Fulltiltpoker's current CEO who is the one who introduces me to poker. He tells me keep detailed records, keep playing, and continue to study. At the end of February '04 my rate is 2.27 BB/100 for just over 38,000 hands.

For the next month and a half, I play almost 32,000 hands at 3/6 and make 2.5BB/100. My last day of limit for the 7 following months is April 15 as I accept a new job offer and switch strictly to MTT. Oh, BTW I register for 2+2.com on 4/6/04 and make a half dozen posts or so before April 15.

Ok, laid off in September, get back into limit in November. Start at 2/4 because it's been a while. Start reading the limit forums again. People talk about this Ed Miller book, while all I know is HEPFAP. I post some hands, and read the advice in the small stakes and general hold'em forums. Seems everything I do is weak-tight.

General advice is ram and jam, jam and ram, keep ramming and jamming, then ram and jam some more. Value bet, raise, reraise because your hand has to be good against the complete donkeys at Party. Oh and ram, jam, cap. If you can, contact Party customer support to see if you can raise the cap on your particular hand to more than 4 bets, even make that hand NL, because my TPTK has to have value over Mr. 70/0/0.5's range of hands. Everytime you have a flush draw, bet, raise and reraise. The same with an OESD. You have JJ in the SB, cap preflop because you have pot equity, even against 6 limpers. Same with AK. Never check AK in the BB preflop, then try and check raise the flop if you hit because that's weak-tight.

Well now I have 20,000+ hands in since November and I'm at 0.87BB/100 at 2/4. Great. I'm not being results oriented and I appreciate variance, but I don't feel like I'm playing well. Maybe my game before was weak-tight, I don't know. But I don't feel being hyper-aggressive postflop is my style. I'd rather keep a potentially large pot to a medium size pot by check-raising to thin the field, or check-calling strong draws against 2 opponents, etc. if I can with that pot twice as often. Do creative things like trapping an opponent drawing dead in the middle by (God forbid) checking first once in a while. Check-calling or check-folding the river against 2 opponents when I've got a good hand but there's a pretty good chance I'm beat, rather than leading out and risk getting raised and reraised just because there's a decent chance I have the best hand.

Anyway, I'm partially venting because I'm frustrated. But am I the only one that feels this way here? Should I try to force my game into being something not quite comfortable at first, or try to find a happy medium? I mean if you have a fundamental problem in your golf swing, correcting it might be uncomfortable at first but will help in the long run. I don't want to play weak-tight, but I think selective, not hyper, aggression is the way to play. I'd love to hear feedback.


Chris

[stinkypete]

stop being results oriented. your sample size is too small anyway.

[USS Gut Shot]

Everyone needs to find their own style. A large majority are going to have better results playing more like Dan Harrington than Gus Hansen.

[James282]

Hey Chris, don't let anyone force you to continue to read 2+2 if you don't find it to be helpeful.
-James

[Ed Miller]

When SSH came out in July, I'd say the majority bad advice I'd see on the Small Stakes and Microlimit forums was too weak-tight.

Now the majority of bad advice I see on the Small Stakes and Microlimit forums is too reckless and aggressive.

What you need to concentrate on doing if you want to improve your game is learn to understand when aggression is appropriate and when it isn't. I'd suggest reading the posts in the Mid- and High-Stakes forum from the excellent players there.

And reread SSH CLOSELY. The examples are all carefully constructed. Notice things like, "When he raises with middle pair, the bet usually comes from the right, not the left." "When he waits for the turn with a vulnerable hand, it's only after almost everyone else in the pot has committed to his hand."

"Ram and jam" is not a good way to play poker. Every check, bet, call, or raise has logical reasoning. Make sure you understand the principles involved, and you won't be so frustrated.

[dogmeat]

What happens to the online games when there are twice as many players in nearly every game that have read HPFAP, TOP and SSHE than there were a year ago?

What I now see on Poker Tracker is tables (even at $2/$4 and $3/$6) that have 3-5 players that only enter pots (VP$IP) 15-18% of the time and have a 7-10% preflop raise number.

This means the games are a LOT TOUGHER than they were a year ago, and probably twice as tough as they were two years ago.

Things change.

FWIW, I've had similar problems using Ed's advice. One of the problems is that the games are not as loose as the book gears much of its advice to. The advice is good, the games are not. Consistently the games on Party and Stars are 25-35% to the flop. These are not loose.

Advice? Well, what the hell do I know. After 14 months of full time play I have hit a stretch of 24,000 hands of break even poker. However, this is not based on being aggressive, or being weak-tight, it is based on missing every flop or draw until my eyes are bleeding.

I'm certain in a day or two my numbers will turn aroung. If I were you I would not worry about what anybody else thinks. Just play the style that works for you and that appears to make you the most money. Keep in mind though, that the games are getting tougher - we all have to adjust.

Dogmeat [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

[Greg J]

Maybe you are not running that well. It can happen even over as many as 20k hands. Playing more aggressively will increase your variance.

Or, maybe you just aren't applying aggression correctly. That is, you don't know how to be aggressive in the right way. That is to say, maybe you are simply not playing that well. I would post some hands any maybe some stats in the appropriate forum.

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I'm partially venting because I'm frustrated. But am I the only one that feels this way here? Should I try to force my game into being something not quite comfortable at first, or try to find a happy medium? I mean if you have a fundamental problem in your golf swing, correcting it might be uncomfortable at first but will help in the long run. I don't want to play weak-tight, but I think selective, not hyper, aggression is the way to play. I'd love to hear feedback.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's cool you are willing to accpet that maybe you were not playing optimally. You might just need to learn how to be properly aggressive. You might not "get it." You seem to be willing to learn and accept criticism, to your credit. I hope you do learn and your results improve. I think that is what we are all here for.

Greg

[greg nice]

play your way.

[MaxPower]

I don't think that is a fair representation of SSH.

Also you should be happy that you are winning after 20,000 hands, you could easily be losing after that many hands.

[Net Warrior]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. You are playing fine. The advice here on these boards is generally too loose aggressive for my taste too. I believe our styles are much alike. It has taken me a long time to get my game to the point where I'm confident I know what I'm doing and that I'm beating the game at the stakes I play (5-10 at Pokerroom). I'm always looking and hoping to tweak it but I would never consider a major overhaul. I don't think you should either.