Do you lay this down?

[BeavisChrist]

I've been agonizing over this one since Friday:

Local (Seattle) card room 3-5 NLHE.

Hero ($760)
Villain ($660)

Villain is in the SB, UTG totally wild LAG player raises to $15. I'm MP with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I flat call the $15 as does the button and SB.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

SB checks, UTG checks. I lead out for $30 (1/2 the pot). Button folds, SB check-raises to $60. I had him pegged as a somewhat reasonable player - but I had seen him check-raise like this several times during the night and take pots down uncontested. UTG folds, I flat call his raise, putting him on AK. $180 in the pot.

Turn comes J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. He leads out without hesitation with $100. I fire back and make it $200. He looks me over and says "I'm all in."

Dealer counts down and it's another $280 to call. The pot has $580 plus his $280 - $860 total.

Comments / suggestions at this point in the hand?

[schwza]

you should lay that down..... if you don't like money.

i'd have raised him all-in with the initial turn raise. if he flat-calls your raise with a heart draw or an OESD (or both), then he's not paying off at all if he misses, but you have to pay him off if he does.

i'm torn on how to play the flop. if he's got a top pair-type hand then calling is good, but if it's a semi-bluff, it's a disaster. but even if it's top pair and not a flush draw, a heart on the turn is still bad b/c it will kill your action. ditto for a 9 and a 4 (that would complete a straight for 78). i think i prefer a reraise on the flop.

there's no way you can fold on the end.

[gcoutu]

call and hope the heart doesnt come to make his A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flush. I think you were right on the AK and if he does have a bigger set than so be it. The pot odds seem right to call every time here.

[B Mando]

He could easily be in there with AK of hearts like gcoutu stated...He could have KJ...if he has a set of sixes then so be it, That is a pretty quick call, if you didnt call it sounds like you might of been playing with scared money...I dont mean to offend you by saying that, because I used to be that guy, but thats a easy call...I mean, come on, its PRESTO!

[BeavisChrist]

Thanks for the replies. I was there with a friend and had flashed my hand to him while I pondered the call. He thought I was crazy to fold too.

After about five minutes the table was getting a little impatient. I flipped over the set and said "nice sixes".

He pushed his cards to the dealer and said "nice laydown". At that point I knew folding was a big mistake because this guy loved to show his hands (especially big ones). A few minutes later he said "that was a good laydown, I had kings".

I told him I didn't believe he had kings and that I thought I had him beat. A few hours go by and he leaves the room (after loosing every last chip). About 30 minutes later he comes back in, taps me on the shoulder and says "I lied, I had KJ". I said "I know".

It's interesting to me that you guys see this as such an obvious calling situation. He check-raised the flop, then bet big on the turn. I figured he put me on the flush draw and was trying to make it expensive. I kept hearing that voice in the back of my head saying "he's got 66, lay this down."

You're not being offensive when you say "scared money" - that wasn't the situation at all. This game is hugely profitable - I'm up around $3500 in eight sessions (it's only $100 buy in).

[Ionphore]

The reason people are saying this is an easy call is because you described him as lagish. And you only need to be winning this pot around 1 in 3 or 4 times to make this call correct with the money in the pot. Its a clear call because a player like this would make this move with a wide variety of hands, 2 pair/pair plus flush draw/lone top pair. You should have beat him into the pot. You are definately winning this 1 out of 4 times, and against this player you are more likely winning more often then 1 out of 2.

[Bob Moss]

[ QUOTE ]

I flipped over the set and said "nice sixes".


[/ QUOTE ]

While I think your fold was bad, showing it was your biggest mistake.

Bob

[BeavisChrist]

I guess too much Phil Helmuth "world class laydown" crap was going through my head at the time. I looked at him for a few minutes trying to pick something up. He looked right at me, and seemed way too relaxed for someone who just put his night's winnings into a single pot.

And yes, showing my cards was stupid - but I think it actually ended up helping me for the rest of the session. Twice I had a full house and was check raised on the river and got a huge payoff from people who probably thought they could push me off a hand with a big raise.

I gave the guy way too much credit - he proceeded to bleed off the entire stack (around $900) making weak calls and stupid bluffs. When he came back into the card room to "brag" about having KJ on that hand I was pumped back up around $500 and just cracked a smile... bad laydown but valuable lesson.

[srblan]

Usually when someone looks right at you after making a bet they are bluffing... Of course, this is different for new players (they are often showing how strong their hand is). If you can't close your eyes and call off your stack with a set in this spot, playing small pairs might be a mistake.

[pocketdueces81]

There have only been a few instances where I have layed down a set like when there are four cards to a straight or a flush. Another folding situation is when you have an ignorant full house (Hero holds 55 and board is K Q 5 K Q )

If you are going to lay down a set of fives in this situation then you shouldn't bother playing any pocket pair aside from qq/kk/aa. Better yet, why play any hand thats not the pure nuts. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

What were you hoping to hit with your hand? Four of a kind? Be realistic! Unless you had a solid read laying down is not the right thing to do.