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#1
09-07-2004, 08:57 PM
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Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
5-handed. Solid, but way too straighforward player (2000) opens for 100. This means he has a good hand (88 or better, AQs, AK). I'll have a very good idea of what his hand is postflop. I call (2500) in CO w/ red JJ. Very good aggressive player (2500) calls behind me on the button. I did not expect him to call. Blinds fold.
Flop Js 2s Qh Opener checks. I check. Button bets 300. Opener folds. I checkraise to 900. Button thinks a little and calls. Turn Js 2s Qh Kd I push. 
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#2
09-07-2004, 09:43 PM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
i would've bet the flop and told 'em the devil made me do it. and happily gone all in at the earliest convenience. no free ones when so many cards kill the AQs/KK/AA/22 action.
matt
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#3
09-07-2004, 09:46 PM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
this reminds me of an online hand you posted where you flopped top set of Kings out of position and then pushed the turn when a third diamond appeared.....almost as if you're acknowledging that the card might've very well helped your opponent, but since you are out of position, you can't afford to check and have him check behind....so you bet (and at this point the only bet is all-in) knowing you have outs on the river......
I'm not sure how I feel about it.....what do you put your opponent on here?....if he has a weak hand (and maybe thought you were trying to make a move on the flop), is he really gonna call your bet on the turn?.....and what drawing hand could he have on the flop?....T9 seems more likely than KT or AK, doesn't it?...and in that case, you didn't even give him a chance to make a mistake.....and finally, if you put him on a lower set or something like that, is he gonna call your turn bet?....I guess the idea here is maybe that you make the same play in this spot with a big made hand so that no one knows what to put you on.....but still, perhaps you can explain it further to me.....
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#5
09-08-2004, 07:57 PM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
[ QUOTE ]
what do you put your opponent on here? [/ QUOTE ] Most likely a hand that folds. I put him on a range of made hand + draw combos on the flop, most likely something like AsQs. AsTs and 9sTs were obviously included in his range of hands. [ QUOTE ] ....if he has a weak hand (and maybe thought you were trying to make a move on the flop), is he really gonna call your bet on the turn? [/ QUOTE ] No. I expect him to fold the vast majority of times here. [ QUOTE ] I guess the idea here is maybe that you make the same play in this spot with a big made hand [/ QUOTE ] You don't think I have a big made hand here?
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#6
09-08-2004, 08:18 PM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
well, obviously the value of your hand goes down on the turn, and no, I'm not so sure I would call it a "great made hand" at that point.....but first off, I neglected to pay close attention to the two spades on the flop.....that definitely changes things to make me agree more with your line....
but so let me ask you this.....say the flop was rainbow, would that have changed what you did on the turn?....because my point was, T9 would be the most logical hand he would call your checkraise with on the flop.....so I just don't like pushing the turn (whereas, with the two-spade flop it's more likely he's on a flush than a straight draw, and either way it makes his hand much harder to define - so you probably have to bet the turn).....second question, with the actual flop in the hand, what if a spade had come out on the turn?....then what would you have done?.....again, similar concept that the most likely draw to have called you on the flop got there on the turn.....so pushing into him just makes no sense.....
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#8
09-09-2004, 07:46 AM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
[ QUOTE ]
5-handed. Solid, but way too straighforward player (2000) opens for 100. This means he has a good hand (88 or better, AQs, AK). I'll have a very good idea of what his hand is postflop. I call (2500) in CO w/ red JJ. Very good aggressive player (2500) calls behind me on the button. I did not expect him to call. Blinds fold. Flop Js 2s Qh Opener checks. I check. Button bets 300. Opener folds. I checkraise to 900. Button thinks a little and calls. [/ QUOTE ] Given that villain has Ts9s for the open end straight flush draw, isn't his move after your flop checkraise either to fold or push? Just calling seems terrible; if he misses on the turn he has to fold to your push.
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#9
09-09-2004, 08:19 AM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
[ QUOTE ]
Had a spade come on the turn I would have most likely check-folded. [/ QUOTE ] which means T9 or T9s isn't really that obvious, but the flush draw is. and i agree. i think you played fine, El D. except, had i been the button, i'd re-raise all-in on the flop. Kenny
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#10
09-09-2004, 09:50 AM
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Re: Commerce 10-20 NL JJ hand
[ QUOTE ]
Had a spade come on the turn I would have most likely check-folded. [/ QUOTE ] I donīt play much no limit and yes, I have problems folding big hands such overpair. But, Check-fold with a turn-spade. I just hate it. I think you have the best hand very often even if the turn is a spade. Is this just me?
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