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  #1  
Old 11-13-2005, 10:32 PM
Matador225 Matador225 is offline
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Default Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

Anyone who plays limit is certainly familiar with the free card play. I had never attempted it in a MTT until earlier tonight in a $5 rebuy and the only reason I decided to use it was because of unique circumstances and the fact that I hated my other options. Comments appreciated...

Background info:

Derfmover is a terrible player and his range is really wide. I put him on a weak ace but he could certainly have worse. Joakimgarp is a pretty solid and intelligent player. I don't automatically give him credit for a very strong hand because of derf's wide range and terrible play.

#Game No : 3031119626
***** Hand History for Game 3031119626 *****
NL Texas Hold'em Trny:17384689 Level:6 Blinds (75/150) - Sunday, November 13, 18:13:54 EDT 2005
Table Multi-Table R&A(510879) Table #48 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: goose552 ( $12873 )
Seat 5: NJKowboy22 ( $6655 )
Seat 6: djhall111 ( $3375 )
Seat 7: lacielady ( $18010 )
Seat 1: joakimgarp ( $14150 )
Seat 9: BEER_ME_ALOT ( $5305 )
Seat 8: derfmover ( $7125 )
Seat 4: Fold_again ( $5252 )
Seat 3: thvols ( $8607 )
Seat 10: ppAsuited ( $4900 )
Trny:17384689 Level:6
Blinds (75/150)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to NJKowboy22 [ 8h 6h ]
derfmover calls [150].
BEER_ME_ALOT folds.
ppAsuited folds.
joakimgarp calls [150].
goose552 folds.
thvols folds.
Fold_again folds.
NJKowboy22 calls [150].
djhall111 calls [75].
lacielady checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5h, 3s, Ah ]
djhall111 checks.
lacielady checks.
derfmover bets [150].
joakimgarp raises [700].
Your time bank will be activated in 5 secs. If you do not want it to be used, please act now.
NJKowboy22 will be using his time bank for this hand.
NJKowboy22 raises [2600].
djhall111 folds.
lacielady folds.
derfmover calls [2450].
joakimgarp calls [1900].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 8c ]
derfmover checks.
joakimgarp checks.
NJKowboy22 is all-In [3905]
derfmover is all-In [4375]
joakimgarp calls [4375].
** Dealing River ** [ 3h ]
derfmover shows [ Jd, Ad ] two pairs, aces and threes.
joakimgarp shows [ 9h, Kh ] a flush, ace high.
NJKowboy22 shows [ 8h, 6h ] a flush, ace high.
joakimgarp wins 940 chips from side pot #1 with a flush, ace high with king kicker.
joakimgarp wins 20265 chips from the main pot with a flush, ace high with king kicker.
Player NJKowboy22 finished in 742 place
Player derfmover finished in 741 place

Thoughts on my flop play? I didn't want to fold with that much in the pot and I hated a call, which would basically shout out "I have a flush draw." I considered pushing but I felt that Joa would correctly interpret it as a flush draw and call. To me a significant raise showed the most strength.

Obviously I was trying to take the pot on the flop but after they both called I had to reevaluate their range of hands. I considered checking the turn but the 8 gave me a lot more potential outs.

All comments appreciated about my play as well as using this play in MTTs in general. After thinking about it I realize that I should have taken a different line and that this play works better with a deeper stack. I certainly would have played it differently if I knew I was up against the nut flush draw.

Thanks a lot,
Jack
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2005, 11:19 PM
Matador225 Matador225 is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

C'mon I thought this was a really interesting hand. Lets get some discussion going...
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2005, 01:58 AM
Noodles Noodles is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

fold the flop, with a bettor and then raiser i cant see you getting both to fold and you might get reraised,

you said you did this to get a free card yet bet the turn,you only have a pair of 8s do you really think this is the best hand now against 2 guy that called you flop raise?
the turn bet is awful,really bad

to be honest your play here is dreadful.
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  #4  
Old 11-14-2005, 03:02 AM
Autocratic Autocratic is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

Fold the flop, I have no idea why you'd raise there. You're almost definitely beat.
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  #5  
Old 11-14-2005, 03:02 AM
SavageMiser SavageMiser is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

Where's the free card?

Preflop I'd be wary and fold this myself if the second limper is smart. Why wouldn't he raise to get the donk to himself?

I'm folding on the flop. Bet, raise to me, the raise from a solid player. I don't see the odds to call and my implied odds are pretty small: I'm only going to get action from a better flush if I hit. Muck.

Turn: Well, I take a card off if I'm making a free card play, right?
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2005, 08:40 AM
Matador225 Matador225 is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

Yes I definitely agree I should have checked the turn, which was my original plan. I screwed that up. My main problem with this hand was that I really felt the reraiser didn't have to have a very strong hand to make this play. I thought I could have pushed him off his hand with a third raise which shows a lot of strength.

In retrospect fold/push were my best options and a fold was probably best.
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  #7  
Old 11-14-2005, 09:22 AM
Matador225 Matador225 is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

Another question. What percentage of the time do you think they both fold to a preflop push given their range of hands?

Lets assume a very wide range for the first raiser, say any ace, medium pocket pair (66-TT), any kind of drawing hand, or better.
I put the reraiser on a pretty wide range here as well, given the initial raiser's horrible past play. So something like A8-AJ, two pair (A3s or A5s),a set of 3s or 5s, or a strong flush draw.

Just trying to figure out how much fold equity I have here.
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2005, 10:19 AM
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

a bet and a raise infront of you and you want to represent at least a set?

against weak players?

jeez muck hand and play on.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2005, 11:12 AM
Noodles Noodles is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

[ QUOTE ]
My main problem with this hand was that I really felt the reraiser didn't have to have a very strong hand to make this play. I thought I could have pushed him off his hand with a third raise which shows a lot of strength.


[/ QUOTE ]

maybe youve been watching to many bluff reraise on TV [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
he may not need a strong hand but it is probably a lot better than yours,

wait for better spots to get tricky until you have more experience.
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2005, 11:14 AM
Noodles Noodles is offline
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Default Re: Free card play in MTTs? Comments?

[ QUOTE ]
Another question. What percentage of the time do you think they both fold to a preflop push given their range of hands?


[/ QUOTE ]

well the guy you say is terrible,id say dont try to go allin with crap agasint these kind of players,the other guy might fold allright.

still i wouldnt try to steal blinds and limpers money with that kinda hand,try it with something better heads up,an axo hand or something
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