Lead with this straight draw?

WorldBeater · #1 02-09-2005, 10:48 PM

It's a 10/25 NL game and I have about 3k in chips. There are 3 limpers and I check in the BB with KhJs. The flop is QsTh3c. I lead at the pot for 100.00. EP folds. MP player calls (has 2k in chips). LP player has 1600 in chips) makes it 550.

I had not been in the game long. The raiser had been in a lot of pots and seemed aggressive during the time I had been playing. I considered pushing with my open ended straight draw / overcard.

1. Does anyone like / dislike the play of leading the flop?
2. Since I did lead the flop, how do I respond to the raise from the LP player? I don't have much of a read on him, although he has been playing seemingly overly aggressive for the short time I have been playing in this game. I hadn't been there long enough to get a reliable read on the players.

tbach24 · #2 02-09-2005, 10:53 PM

I dislike a lead here, as it is a 5-way pot that someone is likely to have gotten a large piece of and likely to raise you. As you played it, I think you fold to his raise.

WorldBeater · #3 02-09-2005, 10:58 PM

"[ QUOTE ]
I dislike a lead here, as it is a 5-way pot that someone is likely to have gotten a large piece of and likely to raise you. As you played it, I think you fold to "

Do you like a check call on the flop assuming a reasonable sized bet? Not a check fold right?

tbach24 · #4 02-09-2005, 11:00 PM

Yeah. I think a check/fold is good. If these are good players, I might fold this pre-flop, because I'm OOP and don't want to get invested if I hit a decent flop.

WorldBeater · #5 02-09-2005, 11:00 PM

I folded to the flop raise. The MP called. The turn was a 9. Argg. My straight card! MP checked the turn. LP made a big turn bet, and MP player folded.

Usagi_yo · #6 02-10-2005, 12:48 AM

I need more then Open ender to push commit. Maybe at nose bleed playing levels it works. Besides, pushing against a raise is more dangerous then pushing against a mere bet, pushing against a re-raise is out of the question.

Other than that, I like feinting EP with a draw like this -- particularly gut shots -- the payoff when somebody behind decides to flat call with the intent to RAISE on the turn is tremendous.

Nothing sweeter then turning the nuts and having somebody push all their chips in behind you. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Warning ... don't do this with non-nut flush draws. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

USS Gut Shot · #7 02-10-2005, 01:07 AM

Your lead is fine and so is your laydown.

The most important thing is that you are not looking for a formula. Vary your play. Sometimes lead, sometimes lead and reraise, sometimes check and call, sometimes check raise.

Once in a while I will check raise the turn when a blank hits.

legend42 · #8 02-10-2005, 02:27 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If these are good players, I might fold this pre-flop

[/ QUOTE ]

He checked from the big blind preflop.

Just to add my 2 cents, I don't like leading out here- especially against aggressive opponents. That flop is just too limper-friendly. If you had 86 in the BB unraised, and lead at a 752 (or even K75) flop, I could get behind it. But I think you're just asking to get popped on this one.

You're better off trying to see a cheap turn, and hope your 9 or A hits to make somebody 2 pair.

PoBoy321 · #9 02-10-2005, 02:33 AM

I hate semi-bluffing into a large field of limpers, especially on this kind of board. you wont get everyone to fold so youre really just paying to draw. i think a check/call is fine so long as you're getting the right odds. otherwise i don't mind check-folding since you're only invested for the BB.