15/30 6max: I hate it when this happens...AKo

Surfbullet · #1 11-02-2005, 08:30 PM

Villain is 54/26/1.5 over 300 hands.

15/30 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) FTR converter on
zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 3 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.66 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (3.33 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.33 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.33 BB

For all intents and purposes there's no difference here between AK/AQ/AT/A9 in terms of hero's holding vs our opponent's hand range, since he'd have 3bet any better ace preflop. I feel like I get this type of hand wrong alot, especially against aggressive opponents.

Surf

Lmn55d · #2 11-02-2005, 08:34 PM

this is totally standard IMO.

Jeff W · #3 11-02-2005, 08:34 PM

Well played.

cartman · #4 11-02-2005, 08:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I get this type of hand wrong alot, especially against aggressive opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not if you play it like this. In my opinion that is.

Cartman

smurfitup · #5 11-02-2005, 08:53 PM

i often raise the turn here to charge the guy in case he picks up a draw/ to get a free showdown... can anyone explain why this might not be the optimal play? thanks.

Lmn55d · #6 11-02-2005, 08:55 PM

sure, against aggressive players it's not the optimal play because they will bluff the river with 0% equity a high percentage of the time, so charging them on the turn is often significantly worse then picking off a river bluff. Furthermore, an aggressive player could easily 3bet a worse hand, causing you to fold the best hand or one with 3-6 outs.

Surfbullet · #7 11-02-2005, 08:57 PM

So does that mean you guys are calling down any big-ish Ace? (A9/AT+?) because they're essentially the same since he'll 3bet big aces preflop...

Also, thoughts on a free showdown turn raise? Smurf mentioned it too, I didn't consider it at the time(basically because I've given up on them against loose players, it usually loses its value when it has no FE like here). I just felt uncomfortable calling all 3 streets...isn't my hand painfully transparent here? I guess I should be flatcalling some PPs maybe to mix it up.

Surf

smurfitup · #8 11-02-2005, 09:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Furthermore, an aggressive player could easily 3bet a worse hand, causing you to fold the best hand or one with 3-6 outs.

[/ QUOTE ]

really? in my experience in this game, only the most maniacal player would bet-3bet bluff the turn... the line of calling the flop, raising the turn usually reeks of strength, and even if your aggro opponent knows that you're doing this for a free showdown, i don't know how often he's going to actually put you to the test w/ a 3 bet... i'm not discrediting the merits of calling down, but i'm not sure the worry of a 3-bet bluff is really a viable one.

smurfitup · #9 11-02-2005, 09:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
isn't my hand painfully transparent here? I guess I should be flatcalling some PPs maybe to mix it up.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]

well, it depends on your history w/ the opponent, but your line here usually means one of two things: a)i have a monster that i'm trapping with or b) i have a weak hand that i'm seeing the showdown with. the problem is that if your opponent is thinking at all, he'll know that he's not bluffing you off the river since the board is so drawless, but he still bets there. you really find yourself in a tough spot, but i guess you gotta make the call. often enough, you'll be shown at or aq or something that figured "if i'm gonna call, i might as well bet."

Lmn55d · #10 11-02-2005, 09:15 PM

I'd have to disagree, I've seen even guys with TAG stats (who probably post on 2+2) 3bet the turn with a draw or otherwise weak hand in a spot like this. I'm almost positive that other aggro players do it fairly frequently. That is just my experience from over 100k hands at 10/20...maybe people play differently against me or maybe I am selectively rememebering things. But I think these bluff/semibluff 3bets happen frequently enough to add weight to the total EV of simply calling down.