Misery with Pocket Aces

[SuitedSixes]

Doyle Brunson is right, you either win small of lose big with AA.


AA is my biggest loser on PT -2.31 BB/hand (NL $25 and $50) I have held it 23 times, and won 65% of the time with it. I have tried different approaches, and have been beat with AA in the last two weeks by:
TT (-55 BB)(T came on the flop and I called a huge bet like an idiot)
AJ (villain called all-in before the flop, board T897)
85 (two pairs) -24BB) small pre-flop raise, called a raise on the turn, player behind came all-in over the top.
AJ again all-in pre-flop -16BB (T8QJJ)
88 (full house -21BB)
84s (Flush -6.50 BB)
46 (Three 6s -9.5BB)

I know some of this is my fault for being unwilling to fold when I feel I am beat (the big raise on the T) but it just seems like if I limp, I get beat by garbage (46, 84s) and if I come in big, I either pick up the blinds or get run down by AJ.

I know that some of these players will pay off in the long run, but I am getting killed. Is there anything wrong with this situation: If I raise pre-flop, someone else re-raises, can I come over the top and say, "I have Aces." I would be perfectly happy to pick up the pot right there, uncontested. Is this stupid, unethical, illegal or some combination of all three?

The hands that I do win are usually folded pre-flop or there is a scary flop where no one bets. Is picking up the blinds the only way to win with AA? By comparison, I am +3.27/Hand with KK, +3.84/Hand QQ, -.49/Hand JJ, and +6.01/Hand TT. It looks like I am OK playing the other big pairs, except for JJ, but we all know how that goes.

[Daann]

I'm at work so I don't have my PT stats to hand but AA is by far my biggest winner. Then again, KK and QQ don't seem to make me nearly as much money.

You seem to be getting some tough beats but you can't limp call with AA, you want as much cash in the pot as possible when your hand is strongest, so raise it up. If you aren't getting action on those hands, raise with more stuff. Big raises from most players with a reasonable amount of money behind them at this limit, when you have raised preflop, generally mean that you are beat. I'm not saying autofold, but try to keep the pot as small as you can if you do decide to play on.

[ QUOTE ]
If I raise pre-flop, someone else re-raises, can I come over the top and say, "I have Aces." I would be perfectly happy to pick up the pot right there, uncontested. Is this stupid, unethical, illegal or some combination of all three?

[/ QUOTE ]

Definitely stupid, and probably should be made illegal. I don't want to sound harsh but if you can't take that sort of edge, you might as well quit.

[LLXC]

You are dominating with pocket aces...why would you not want them to call? Yes, you may experience some bad beats but the odds are definitely with you in the long run.

[Daann]

Thats not the point, you want to get the money in when your hand is strongest and that is preflop. If you are putting in most of your money on the turn or river when unimproved, you are generally playing it wrong. AA is the nuts preflop so play it like it is then rather than later.

[JohnG]

If this is party, Brunsons comments are not relevant. AA is much higher valued in shallowish money games, compared to the games Doyle was talking about.

If it isn't party and the money is deeper, you need to learn how it's value changes when you don't get close to all-in preflop. In other words, your post flop play probably needs work with these type of hands.

[Wayfare]

Never play aces with less than a 6x bb raise except when its already heads-up and then you can minraise.

Auto pot the flop and if there is a king or a queen on board, back it with your stack. If you get a reraise post-flop with a drawless, low card board you might be up against a set. Stack size comes into play at this point.

Also, you have to remember not to trap multiway with aces. They are relatively easy to outdraw, and the main benefit is getting all in against KK/QQ/AK and top pair on the flop. Just don't think they are anything special post-flop (they aren't), and you will be ok.

[JrJordan]

Personally I have trouble getting calls with a 6xBB PF raise. My standard is 4xBB for any hand worth raising. I will raise this to 5 or 6 when there are limpers to me. All too often though, 6xBB will win you nothing but the blinds.

[Wayfare]

Yeah, standard open is 4x, but almost always there are limpers to you. You want to put in a good raise so QQ/JJ will snap you off big and you can move in.

This is at PP 25/50's though.

[JrJordan]

Perhaps I should try experimenting some more with PF raises. My usual plan is 4xBB with no limpers or 1 limper to me, 5 for 2 and sometimes 3, and 6 for 3-4+. Sound familiar or do you start bumping it up after limper #1?

[bsiu5]

I like Daan's advice, generally i raise with all sorts of hands to add deception when i catch a bomb hand. generally i'll lose by raising these marginal hands but i build a reputation of raising non-premium hands. But when i do play these hands i'm very suspicious of someone coming over the top of me after the flop, so i'll fold if i dont' have a draw to a straight, flush, or boat. by doing so when i do catch my AA i get a caller callling a preflop bet. That way i can make more money with my AA and make up for all my loses betting those marginal hands. If you only raise with AA,KK,QQ,AK and people catch that your not going to win as much as you can cause people will be careful when there in with you. sometimes it's good to lose small amounts to win the big one.

i play with a bunch of guys that raise preflop only with those hands and limp the rest. i already know what i'm getting into if i'm in the hand so it's an easy fold for me w/ a top pair high kicker. just last night i won $100 on AA twice because they thought i was just trying to steal the blinds pre-flop with my ridiculous raise when they had QQ and KK and they came over the top.