Set of Aces on VERY scary board...or I am very WEAK...

Maurader1 · #1 07-20-2005, 02:04 AM

First hand at the table...

Flop: There's so many draws and already a raiser and cold caller on the flop, do I still raise for value? Or would it be spewing?

Turn: SCARY. But at least it wasn't Jc. I think that between UTG and MP1, there is at least one Q, most likely MP1 has one, but with draws to the boat, I'm at least calling.

During the hand, I thought I had 3 Ks, 3 Ts, and 3 Js and one A for 10 outs...but now I realize that each of these should have been discounted by at LEAST one, since these other cold callers at least have a pair...so can I say I have 5 discounted outs? and the high implied odds...so I'm calling for sure right? but do I raise?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (13.25 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets, MP1 raises, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Hero ???calls???

#2 07-20-2005, 02:09 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (16.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero 3-bets

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

TripleH68 · #3 07-20-2005, 02:11 AM

Raise the flop. Hope it gets capped.

Pot will be huge so you must call the turn.

Maurader1 · #4 07-20-2005, 02:13 AM

By not 3-betting the flop, am I misapplying the concept of "foregoing a smaller edge and waiting for a bigger edge" on the turn?

ArturiusX · #5 07-20-2005, 02:18 AM

Even if they flipped over and showed you a straight, you still have to call.

Maurader1 · #6 07-20-2005, 02:20 AM

but do I raise given the large number of players padding the pot?

Kumubou · #7 07-20-2005, 02:22 AM

Yes -- top set has a huge equity edge over any other holdings right now. It is not changing much. The turn card is probably the worst thing to come off, but 3-bet anywhere -- you are going nowhere. Hope one is just betting top pair and the other is raising with his two pair or set. Even if they both tabled straights, you would be correct in calling to try to fill up. The only way you would ever fold this is if by divine intervention you knew someone was going to make quads on the river (and then I probably call down anyway).

-K

Percy101 · #8 07-20-2005, 02:24 AM

yes. Your not folding to any scare cards on the turn, and your edge will not increase enough on the turn if a blank falls to make calling the flop correct. Keep raising the flop.

TripleH68 · #9 07-20-2005, 02:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Hero posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero (poster) 3-bets, 3 folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (16.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
UTG bets, MP1 calls, MP2 raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

By not 3-betting the flop, am I misapplying the concept of "foregoing a smaller edge and waiting for a bigger edge" on the turn?

Yes. You have a monster hand in a big pot. Time to ram and jam on the flop. Your hand is susceptible sure, but only behind specifically QJ...against which you have outs to the nuts! There are callers padding the pot. Get as many chips into the middle as you can.

Need I say more?

Think of how the hand would have played if the turn card was the 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

gmandan · #10 07-20-2005, 02:26 AM

At the very least its an easy call. You have full house outs and a possible but unlikely chance of quads. It might be likely someone already made a straight, a flush draw, and maybe even a two pair. Hit and you'll get paid off big time.