River Action

[Vern]

Table is good, only strong player is immediately to my left.
UTG is loose and passive
MP1 is loose and aggressive pre-flop then wimps out
MP2 is loose passive pre-flop then turns it on if he hits the flop
MP3 is a Jr. LAG, loose and aggressive pre-flop, then neutral-aggressive post flop, usually at the wrong times.
CO is just loose and passive
SB it a TAG
BB is a LAG

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed)
Props to Bison for his converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 caps</font>, CO calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (25.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 raises</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Turn: (18.75 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 bets</font>, CO calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

River: (26.75 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero ?

[young nut]

I said call, and I refer you to a wonderful post by Ed Miller, its a must read:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...amp;PHPSESSID=

[Vern]

I have read the post, and the book as well. I posted a specific hand, specific reads and one question point.

I don't make a habit of folding in big pots, but this is one where I think it is worth considering. Pros: I have the advantage of closing the action on the river at 28.75:1, huge odds. Cons: 4 to a straight on the board, I still only have an overpair, and by the time I get to make my river decision, there has already been a bet, call and overcall.

I just think this specific decision is not just quickly answered by quoting Ed Miller's general rules, even if in the end, the answer coincides with his advice.

That said, thanks for responding.

Vern

[Stuey]

I have read SSH and the post listed above, both are great. But I picked raise. Very good chance I am wrong but I will explain why I want to raise the river. First these are great players to have at your table you are going to make money off them. Maybe not this hand but if they stay for sure. You waited for a good starting hand so you have to feel your ahead preflop.

You fear trips after the flop. If one of them holds 99,66,22, I am willing to pay him off. I like your play on all streets. Yah I see the str8 developing lets look at that. If he made an str8 on the turn he holds T8, or 85 pay him off he needs the money. If he makes a str8 on the turn he holds JT,AT,A5 or similar. I don’t think he has a str8 if he does I pay.

But by raising here I do a few things I like. I make more when I am right. When I am wrong these two are happy and continue this crazy play and I get them later. I feel a raise on the river will only increase my SD not my long term results, this sounds crazy even as I type it! If I get reraised I call it. When I am beat I don’t show the QQ and if they ask I lie. When I have LAG’s at the table I wait for a good hand and then I push it. When I am wrong it looks very bad and I will get more action in future hands not just from the loose guys. I look forward to hearing why this is so wrong. Deep down I know it is but I won’t stop till I have a reason I believe.

Ps I am NOT doing this at a 15/30 table don’t worry or drool as the case may be.

[crownjules]

Can you fold when you're getting 29:1 odds? I don't think so, even though you're most likely beat here by the guy holding a 10 or 5. That's also the reason why you can't raise IMHO. You're just calling here expecting to lose, but there's the small chance that you may have these guys beat.

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
Can you fold when you're getting 29:1 odds? I don't think so, even though you're most likely beat here by the guy holding a 10 or 5. That's also the reason why you can't raise IMHO. You're just calling here expecting to lose, but there's the small chance that you may have these guys beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

[btspider]

too bad MP1 has TT.
CO has a connector two pair.. say 98.
i'll give MP3 66.. but he could table anything.

[tiltaholic]

sanity call?
i don't think you are good 4% of the time.
and we alwasy say don't throw good money after bad. (or is it bad money after good?)
but sometimes, you just need to follow through on your swing even if you know the ball is going in the pond/sand/marsh/highway. it helps you maintain focus for the next swing.
and...maybe you'll get a really nice 28BB present.

[droolie]

I call this because I don't like throwing up in my mouth when I see I would have won a 28BB pot had a thrown in one more BB closing the action.

[charlie_t_jr]

I have my doubts your good, but you no what they say about big pots, and calling one bet...closing the action, gotta call.