Trouble with TPGK (KQs)

orange · #1 12-10-2005, 05:44 PM

No reads. I'm constantly having trouble with these TPTK hands.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($24.50)
Button ($26.12)
SB ($23.53)
BB ($16.45)
UTG ($14.03)
UTG+1 ($12.45)
MP1 ($40)
MP2 ($20)
MP3 ($8.30)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, MP3 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.75, 3 folds, MP1 calls $1.50, MP3 folds.

Flop: ($4.10) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $3, Hero raises to $9, MP1 calls $6.

Turn: ($22.10) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP1 bets $5 Hero ??.

#2 12-10-2005, 05:53 PM

Preflop is sublime, obviously. On the flop you came hard, and he didn't leave. When he called, I would put him on the FD, but if you call his turn you need to push, he covers you big time, and you are short stacked either wa/wb. This is a split between folding and pushing for me.

Cambraceres

#3 12-10-2005, 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop is sublime, obviously. On the flop you came hard, and he didn't leave. When he called, I would put him on the FD, but if you call his turn you need to push, he covers you big time, and you are short stacked either wa/wb. This is a split between folding and pushing for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

No way am I folding to that bet. to me the difference is between calling and pushing. I'm leaning a bit more towards a push

#4 12-10-2005, 06:07 PM

Your probably right about not folding, but minraises this late raise the hair on the back of my neck. I'm a weak tight one though.

Godfather80 · #5 12-10-2005, 08:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Your probably right about not folding, but minraises this late raise the hair on the back of my neck. I'm a weak tight one though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Where is the min-raise exactly?

Your stack size dictates a push as calling leaves you with an ~$8 stack on the river, which is going in anyway due to your hand strength and the pot size.

GrunchCan · #6 12-10-2005, 05:53 PM

I call. I don't want to re-open the betting, and this hand has some showdown value. I'm going to show this hand down as cheaply as possible, and I'm not going to try to take this pot away from him. If he checks the river, I check behind. If he bets half pot, I call. More than half pot gets in to judgement calls & depends on the opponent.

Isura · #7 12-10-2005, 07:57 PM

Push the turn. This bet is almost always some kind of draw, or weaker pair + draw.

GrunchCan · #8 12-10-2005, 08:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Push the turn. This bet is almost always some kind of draw, or weaker pair + draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we rooting for a fold?

Godfather80 · #9 12-11-2005, 12:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Push the turn. This bet is almost always some kind of draw, or weaker pair + draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we rooting for a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but our stack is going to end up in the middle if we call the turn anyway. The reason we push is that we are hoping villain will make a mistake and call with a worse hand OR that he will make a mistake and pay too much to draw.

The call allows him not only to beat us for the rest of our stack when we're second best, but also allows him to hit his draw with the correct odds.

And we already said that the fold is silly.

Pushing is the only real choice here, unless we can find a fold on the end when we'll be getting a great price to call.

Isura · #10 12-11-2005, 12:30 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Push the turn. This bet is almost always some kind of draw, or weaker pair + draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are we rooting for a fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Good chance we have the best hand. Good chance villain is drawing. He won't payoff with the rest of his stack on the river unless he improves. Just push. Would you have bet if he had checked? Because I treat the $5 bet as a check in this spot. If though he will have odds to draw out when we push, it's still better than letting them see the river cheaply and we'll be pot committed anyways.