Free showdown?

xenthebrain · #1 07-02-2005, 12:37 PM

SB is 51/20/1.83

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero raises, 1 fold, MP1 calls, 4 folds, SB calls, 1 fold.

Flop: (7 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, MP1 calls, SB raises, Hero calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (6.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, MP1 folds, SB calls.

River: (10.50 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB checks, Hero... ?

Valuebet or free showdown?
Just call the turn and call the river?
How would you have played?

MrWookie47 · #2 07-02-2005, 12:42 PM

I doubt he's checkraising the flop with just a 3 or a 7. I think it's probably an A, and then odds are it's a weaker one than yours. I think this is a value bet. Also, I 3bet the flop.

Redd · #3 07-02-2005, 04:28 PM

edit: Misread the hand; This one looks like it's about 0EV. It looks like this villain could play an A or a 7 here; a 3 seems unlikely unless he's really tricky.

Based on his VPIP, he's probably playing about twice as many aces (all of 'em) as he is sevens. Since you're calling a river c/r, you need to be ahead 33% of the time. So IMO it doesn't make a big difference either way; I think the times he has a middling PP outweigh the times he has a 3 (again, unless he's really tricky), which would shift it barely towards a bet for me.

irishpint · #4 07-02-2005, 12:42 PM

free showdown all the way. SB was either betting an Ace, a 7 or a 3, and if he had a 7 or 3 you're lost now and he wants to check raise you (a silly play). you both played this hand weird... your stop and go and him calling your turn raise- what does he have? what a weird hand.

oh, and about the numbers. he's loose enough to have a 3 or 7, and aggresso to bet a 3 or 7 on that flop, so id be concerned and check behind.

EDIT: Id 3bet the flop and lead the turn, btw.

xenthebrain · #5 07-02-2005, 01:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Id 3bet the flop and lead the turn, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]
I called the flop to raise the turn. He was moderately aggressive and I expected him to do so.

What would I gain by 3-betting and betting the turn? If I'm ahead I would loose 1SB, if I'm behind I might get c/r on the turn.
There are fewer hands that would 3-bet the turn than c/r the turn.

irishpint · #6 07-02-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Id 3bet the flop and lead the turn, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]
I called the flop to raise the turn. He was moderately aggressive and I expected him to do so.

What would I gain by 3-betting and betting the turn? If I'm ahead I would loose 1SB, if I'm behind I might get c/r on the turn.
There are fewer hands that would 3-bet the turn than c/r the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

when 3-betting and leading the turn, im thinking YHIG, however if we get raised on the turn i can slow down, or even drop it, depending on what we know. i think we need to be more aggressive on the flop because that's our flop- we raised PF and it hit us with TP.

xenthebrain · #7 07-02-2005, 03:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
EDIT: Id 3bet the flop and lead the turn, btw.

[/ QUOTE ]
I called the flop to raise the turn. He was moderately aggressive and I expected him to do so.

What would I gain by 3-betting and betting the turn? If I'm ahead I would loose 1SB, if I'm behind I might get c/r on the turn.
There are fewer hands that would 3-bet the turn than c/r the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

when 3-betting and leading the turn, im thinking YHIG, however if we get raised on the turn i can slow down, or even drop it, depending on what we know. i think we need to be more aggressive on the flop because that's our flop- we raised PF and it hit us with TP.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if he is on a (not so obvious) draw, a pair or TP weak kicker (and wants to see where he stands) I would not gain by 3-betting the flop.
He might even check-fold the turn. Why not let him bet instead?

I don't think the flopbet is the question here.
Rather calling the turn and calling/betting the river or raising the turn and checking or betting the river.

DavidC · #8 07-02-2005, 01:22 PM

Will he bluff checkraise the river? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

xenthebrain · #9 07-02-2005, 03:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Will he bluff checkraise the river? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if I knew he would never bluff c/r the river that I would have bet/folded, but he wasn't always a straightforward player.
And his pfr is an indication for a little crazyness, too.

GTSamIAm · #10 07-02-2005, 01:37 PM

There are no obvious draws. What is wrong with calling down? If he is trying to muscle you, he might keep doing it even on the river. And if he is, you are not going to win more money by raising him out. This is a way ahead way behind situation?