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  #1  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:17 AM
Kirkrrr Kirkrrr is offline
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Default 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

I started off this session extremely aggressive but have since downshifted and been playing solid. Villain has been playing nothing but solid. Seems very tight and completely unwilling to get into any big confrontations without a made hand. So off we go...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) converter

SB ($460.80)
BB ($1347.25)
UTG ($154.05)
Hero ($1323.55)
Button ($384.90)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $12</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls $8.

Flop: ($26) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $16</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $40</font>, Hero calls $24.

Turn: ($106) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">BB bets $56</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $156</font>, BB calls $100.

River: ($418) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $1115.55 (All-In)</font>....

Standard?

Kirk
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  #2  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:37 AM
Lucky Lucky is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

I dont like it. If you want him to fold his 7s5s type of hand, you can bet much less and get him to release. What happens when he's rivered his flush with his 5d6d? You think he gives you credit for Queens full and releases? No, he calls.

I think you've read him and can get him to fold his non flush, but if he's tight the overbet is unnecessary.
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  #3  
Old 12-31-2005, 07:40 AM
pottie pottie is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

Kirkrrr you have some balls sir. Did you show?

Personally I'm calling the turn and as played have to give him credit for a hand that might call the river after he called that turn raise.
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  #4  
Old 12-31-2005, 08:35 AM
Ghazban Ghazban is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

Totally unnecessary river push. If he's folding, he's folding to a much smaller bet. I don't think you get enough instances to use the image of pushing (whether called or not) to make the push good from a metagame perspective, either.
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  #5  
Old 12-31-2005, 09:37 AM
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

whoa dude what are you trying to represent with that river push? if I was him I'd call you with a set or straight, which I reckon makes this a bad push
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  #6  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:46 PM
BobboFitos BobboFitos is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

[ QUOTE ]
whoa dude what are you trying to represent with that river push? if I was him I'd call you with a set or straight, which I reckon makes this a bad push

[/ QUOTE ]

He's representing QQ or A5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] or similr hand like that. If I was villain, I'd auto call with a full house, but I may have 3bet the turn w/ those hands.

I think OP should've raise the pot on the turn though, if that was his plan. (raising)
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  #7  
Old 12-31-2005, 03:56 PM
BobboFitos BobboFitos is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

[ QUOTE ]
whoa dude what are you trying to represent with that river push? if I was him I'd call you with a set or straight, which I reckon makes this a bad push

[/ QUOTE ]

I think though villain never has a straight, (what solid player will have 58 or 35 here?) so the question is does he have a set. I imagine a set may c/r the flop and bet the turn, (those bet sizes are pretty effing weak though and scream more "fold if you have nothing," for the flop and "let me see the river cheaply," for the river) but probably vs another deep stack would likely put a third bet in on the turn.

Would a set check the river? If villainwas crafty it is a good spot to c/r the rest all in, (except Hero's turn raise could easily be for free showdown, since it was small; i'd probably just value bet) but the 4 pairing also makes bottom set unlikely. Since I think he needs minimum of 66 to call, (plus, unlikely but possible top two is now counterfeited) and I think those hands would be played differently, Hero's bluff (it also represents a hand he could have) isn't bad at all.

Thing is though, the risk reward isn't great, (he's laying about 3x the pot, I think? This needs to work quite often!!!) but if you raised the pot on the turn, it would alleviate alot of this. (More fold equity there, more value in a bluff on the river, and generally imo just more believability for what you have!)

This definately takes guts, though, OP. nh.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:07 PM
Kirkrrr Kirkrrr is offline
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Default RESULTS and reasoning.

Bobbo outlined a lot of what went through my head when that river came out and he checked.

Flop: My opponent has a wide range for check-raising this flop. I've been raising a lot pre-flop and cont. betting virtually every time (it was working fine), so he really didn't have to have much for the check-raise there.

Turn: That was a weak bet, and with those stack-sizes (400BB+), if he had anything decent he'd be trying to get as much chips in the middle as possible. The raise size was very standard for me.

River: His calling the turn raise really slowed me down. At that point I had to give him credit for a good hand. Then he checked the river... I couldn't see him checking that river with a boat or a flush, that was just far too unlikely. So if he couldn't have a boat and didn't have the flush, I didn't see him calling my all-in.

He had 67o and flopped top two, he told me later (no, I didn't show - I never show my cards), and got counterfeited on the river. Lucky me.
A few minutes later I took the same line with a boat (all-in overbet on the river), then with a straight. They folded every time. Dammit. It works both ways [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Kirk
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:10 PM
Kirkrrr Kirkrrr is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

[ QUOTE ]
if I was him I'd call you with a set or straight, which I reckon makes this a bad push

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, if he had a set (which became a full house, btw), I knew I was getting called. But you'd seriously call that bet with a straight on flush/paired board? ... I don't know if that's a good call or not without an awesome read of some sort.

Kirk
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2005, 06:16 PM
Kirkrrr Kirkrrr is offline
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Default Re: 2/4NL: It\'s a question of stack sizes, really...

[ QUOTE ]
Personally I'm calling the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

I probably would've done that if I saw a sizeable get (or just folded). His weakish bet triggered something, however [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
as played have to give him credit for a hand that might call the river after he called that turn raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking that the fact that he just called $100 on a very draw-heavy board does not in any way mean that he's calling another $1,000 on a much more scary board.

Kirk
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