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View Poll Results: Hand #3
Check 66 67.35%
Value Bet 32 32.65%
Voters: 98. You may not vote on this poll

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  #11  
Old 12-16-2005, 06:25 PM
DPCondit DPCondit is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

[ QUOTE ]
What do you gain by limp re-raising that you don't by just raising

[/ QUOTE ]

You get extra money in the pot instead of a few measly blinds.
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  #12  
Old 12-16-2005, 06:25 PM
Femto Femto is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

[ QUOTE ]
The caviat is that you have to learn when to let go of you aces post flop when you don't get anyone to raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]very true.

another debate on a similar topic- summary: 45suited suggests the limp/reraise.
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  #13  
Old 12-16-2005, 06:26 PM
splashpot splashpot is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

Never say never. Remember that hand history of that guy who won a tournament by pushing every hand? And some people were still limp/folding after he pushed like 20+ times in a row? If I was up against that guy, I'd limp UTG.
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  #14  
Old 12-16-2005, 06:28 PM
Melchiades Melchiades is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

Someone limping aces preflop and bust to BB's floppped two pair. It's always my favouirte moment in poker.

Specially when they utter a: "Unreal!" as they crash and burn.
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  #15  
Old 12-16-2005, 06:35 PM
valenzuela valenzuela is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

[ QUOTE ]
Someone limping aces preflop and bust to BB's floppped two pair. It's always my favouirte moment in poker.

Specially when they utter a: "Unreal!" as they crash and burn.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:03 PM
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

A much better question is not whether to raise, but how much? I generally pop it to $55 at the 22s and 33s. How much is a "good" UTG Aces raise assuming level 1 and no real reads on the table?
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:09 PM
Femto Femto is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

more than 45 but less than 70
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:16 PM
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

[ QUOTE ]
A much better question is not whether to raise, but how much? I generally pop it to $55 at the 22s and 33s. How much is a "good" UTG Aces raise assuming level 1 and no real reads on the table?

[/ QUOTE ]

4xbb for me early. I bump all my bets up in the beginning above 3xBB and then bring them down to about 2.75xBB after blinds hit L3/4...

I find in the very early stages that opening raises with legitimate hands (the weaker ones mostly -- mid position AQ raise for instance) will just get flat-called behind by too many people with junk. So I bump it up on principal for all opening raise hands that I move with. One or two junky callers is nice, that's your goal; but it becomes a problem for AA when you have four ride alongs because you only minraised or limped. Then you get angry because you SHOULD have won, and the guy who just hit two pair w/his 76o has all ur chips.

Raising to 60-70 here discourages a horde behind you, does not cramp your oppos ability to reraise you big if he so desires (yay!), and (if called) builds a bigger pot while you have a good hand so postflop you will have a chance at extracting more money. (opps less likely to fold in bigger pots, and the 1/2 pot bet you make on the flop will be larger because of the extra PF money)
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

[ QUOTE ]
Never say never. Remember that hand history of that guy who won a tournament by pushing every hand? And some people were still limp/folding after he pushed like 20+ times in a row? If I was up against that guy, I'd limp UTG.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are actually a lot of situations for a limp with a good hand, but it is highly table-specific, and probably an overused tactic in most amatures arsenal.

Just like bringing your queen out early in chess, limping with monsters UTG is considered a weak (if sometimes successful maneuver) employed by unsophisticated players trying to force their strength in a very blunt way. (Weak is Strong Strong is Weak. Oh you limped/re-raised me big... I wonder whatcha got...)

However, Grandmasters bring their queen out early in EXTREME cases where the situation warrants the move. Because the GM is perceptive enough to see the confluence of factors that makes an early queen the correct play, he able to employ it successfully.

Similarly in Poker, one could propose a lot of situations very close to this one where a limp would be more acceptable with AA/KK, but there are small changes (number of players, blind levels, table image thus far, a lot of agression behind, a read) that drastically change the decision.

Just some more thoughts on the matter...
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2005, 07:38 PM
kyro kyro is offline
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Default Re: Limping AA UTG, L1

[ QUOTE ]
Someone limping aces preflop and bust to BB's floppped two pair. It's always my favouirte moment in poker.

Specially when they utter a: "Unreal!" as they crash and burn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most good players generally don't bust this way even if they limp them though. This is a poor argument if you're trying to give evidence why you shouldn't limp AA preflop.

I do it, often. Maybe too often. But I don't think I've ever gone bust on the first hand unless I had a good reason to.
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