Down about 200BB within past week - is this why? - Page 4

DavidC · #31 04-19-2005, 05:04 AM

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Here are 2 more hands thatto me seem to be a bit more questionable. Maybe not?

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 6 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 raises, SB folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG+1 caps, Hero calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 9.50 BB

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $1.50.
UTG (poster) checks, Hero raises, 4 folds, Button calls, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, Button calls, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (6 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button folds, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (10 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12 BB

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Hand 1:
Raise the turn and call down if raised. If not raised, bet again on a non-club. If he's got AK or 55 you lose, but other than that your hand is very strong, and you're sucking up one of the cards that could make him a set.

When posting your hands in the future, please try to at least include the pokertracker stats that you would have known at the time had you been using PT/PV (if you use those products).

Hand 2: Fold the turn vs the checkraise. The bets are fine though.

-Caveat: I'm posting this as much for my benefit as yours. If I'm corrected by someone who deserves to be a poohbah, then I'm happy. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

imported_Reaction · #32 04-19-2005, 02:32 PM

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls, 4 folds, MP3 calls, CO (poster) checks, Button calls, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: (7.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, MP3 calls, Hero calls.

River: (13.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls, MP3 folds.

Final Pot: 15.50 BB

Help me understand:

In this hand (copied from above), the census seems to be that it would have been better to check/call the river (which would almost certainly be a check/overcall with Last-To-Act CCing). I agree this is a good play when heads up OR if the turn-raise comes from the LTA. But I question its application when LTA is still in the hand on the river AND the turn raise comes from the middleman.

The problem I see with this play is that with LTA calling two cold, more often then not, means he has us beat but maybe not the raiser (he would have probably re-raised if he had the raiser beat). I think the better plays are to either fold to the turn raise or, if we really want to see the river and a cheap showdown, to call the turn raise and bet/fold on the river. Knowing that we are already willing to gamble one bet on the river, it is better to get it in first, hope the middleman goes for the overcall AND LTA won’t call in a pot that is protected by the turn-raiser . IMO it is the better option to checking to the turn-raiser (who will probably bet), letting the turn-cold-calling LTA make the first call. Which forces us into the, almost never correct, overcall.

Catt · #33 04-19-2005, 03:01 PM

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It's a shame to post like that and not have an avatar; go get one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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If I got an avatar I would waste untold time changing the damn thing month to month and spending additional time trying to think up clever Locations for my profile. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]