Using Two Dimes

[johnd192]

When using two dimes to compare two hands can you use the % to win and % to lose to help calculate that you were correct in the way you bet, called, raised or folded on each round? Example Im in the SB with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] against an unknown BB and EP with A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] who limped in.

pokenum -h kh qs - as ks
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Kh 411622 24.04 1279852 74.74 20830 1.22 0.246
As Ks 1279852 74.74 411622 24.04 20830 1.22 0.754

Does this mean I am a 4:1 dog and but was correct to complete the small blind because I was getting 5:1 to complete the small blind (75 in pot and I have to call 15 to complete). The flop was K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
and was checked all around.

pokenum -h kh qs - as ks -- kd kc jh
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing Kc Kd Jh
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Kh 133 13.43 689 69.60 168 16.97 0.219
As Ks 689 69.60 133 13.43 168 16.97 0.781

Am I now a 7:1 dog to lose? The turn is an 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
and I now bet out 30 which both the bb and ep call.
So if I am a dog to lose is betting incorrect?
The river is a Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and now I have the nuts.
I bet 30 called by bb raised to 60 by the ep and I raise
another 320 all in. BB folds and EP has me covered by 300 and calls. I win (this is an SNG hand). How exactly should one to use the two dimes win/lose rates to determine proper odds on betting/calling/raising or folding?
I know this isnt a great hand for an example but it was the only one I could think of since I just played it recently.
Please let me know if I miscalculated any pot odds or other odds. thx

[steveyz]

What you have calculated are strict pot odds and have not factored in implied odds. Meaning these odds are correct if you guys are all in. But since there is usually betting on the flop, turn, and river, you must consider the implied odds when decide to call or not. For example, it's well known that with a pocket pair, your chance of flopping a set or better is about 7.5:1, however, you can often call pf with a pair getting only 5:1 immediate pot odds because the bets that you win during later rounds will make up for it. In NL, the implied odds are even greater in most instances.

[Analyst]

[ QUOTE ]
pokenum -h kh qs - as ks
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Qs Kh 411622 24.04 1279852 74.74 20830 1.22 0.246
As Ks 1279852 74.74 411622 24.04 20830 1.22 0.754

Does this mean I am a 4:1 dog

[/ QUOTE ]

No, you're actually about 3:1 (74.74/24.04).

[Nottom]

None of it really matters because you don't know what EP actually has.

If for somereson you were able to put him on AKs preflop, then you can worry about pot odds and all that, but in reality I would see a limper and then look down and see that I have KQ and feel pretty good about my hand. When the flop comes with KK, I'm certainly not living in fear of AK and am much more concerned about trying to get all my money in the pot.

[Nottom]

A better example of using two-dimes would be something like

You are the big stack in a SNG and open raise from the CO with 78s for 300 trying to steal the 50 and 100 blinds. The button goes all-in for 500 and your pretty sure he has a big pair or AK.

So you consult two-dimes and see:
pokenum -h 8s 7s - kc kd
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 7s 384742 22.47 1322093 77.21 5469 0.32 0.226
Kc Kd 1322093 77.21 384742 22.47 5469 0.32 0.774

and

pokenum -h 8s 7s - ac kd
Holdem Hi: 1712304 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
8s 7s 714228 41.71 991623 57.91 6453 0.38 0.419
Ac Kd 991623 57.91 714228 41.71 6453 0.38 0.581

So you figure you are probably around a 3.5-1 dog at worst and are getting 950:200 or 4.25:1 on your call and make the call knowing you are behind but are getting more than sufficiant odds to catch up.

If on the other hand, he goes has 800 and goes all-in. You are now getting 1250:500 or just 2.5:1 on your call. In this case its probably better to let it go.

[M.B.E.]