$1/$2 NL Live hand

iceman5 · #1 11-03-2005, 11:26 AM

I rarely play live because the closest poker room is about an hour and 20 mins away. I went with a friend who plays $50NL online. He wanted to play the $1/$2 NL since thats the smallest game they have so I played it also. Ive played the $2/$5NL at this place and the players are awful.

They were about the same in this $1/$2 NL game ($200 buy in).

Heres one hand that I have a question about.

UTG ($300) limps. He limps almost every hand. Hes really bad and will chase any draw for pot sized bets. Hes been chasing flushes all night and has hit a few. I have little experience with live tells, but I have a read on his river bet when he hits. He makes it rather obvious the way he plunks the river bet down.

I raise to $15 wih KK (I have $460). We're heads up

Pot $33. Flop comes T99 and he leads out for $25. This is a very strange play for this table. Im pretty sure he has a ten. He could have a 9 but I doubt it and he could also have some other pocket pair but I doubt its higher than tens.

The obvious play is to raise, but heres the question. Is it correct to raise if I know he has only 2 outs and that he will fold to a raise? I flat called.

Pots now $83. The turn is a Q. He bets $50. Same question. He probably thinks I have AK type hand sinxce I didnt raise the flop. I can raise now and he'' most likely fold, but he may well bet the river again with just his T, so could it be correct to flat call again, or is a raise mandatory here? If I raise now, he'll put me on a Q and fold.

I assume that they answer lies in how often he'll either fire again on the river with just a T, or check/call a bet with just his T.

Ghazban · #2 11-03-2005, 11:39 AM

You answered your own question. If he's way behind and will bet but not call, obviously you should let him bet.

KowCiller · #3 11-03-2005, 11:39 AM

I would just call down. Raising is pretty pointless, unless he's truly bad and will pay off with QT or something. My feeling is he probably has a hand like JT-AT or QJ and just hit a pair to go with his OESD. It's a very rare occasion that $1/$2 NL live players will fast play a hand > 2pair.

KoW

iceman5 · #4 11-03-2005, 01:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You answered your own question. If he's way behind and will bet but not call, obviously you should let him bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

But technically, once he bets the turn....if I dont raise, Im letting him see the river for no extra charge. Its almost like giving a free card since Im in position and he already bet. If he rivers a Ten, I will feel pretty dumb.

Ive had this scenario come up online quite a bit and I still havent figured out if raising is correct or not.

I mean, I know its not bad to raise, Im just wondering if its bad not to.

Ghazban · #5 11-03-2005, 01:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But technically, once he bets the turn....if I dont raise, Im letting him see the river for no extra charge.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not a problem at all. I suppose if he will always check/fold the river when he doesn't improve, you should raise the turn but if he will bet again for value on the end without being able to beat aces up, raising the turn is almost clearly wrong. He has so few outs here (2) that you don't need to worry about charging him to draw.

KowCiller · #6 11-03-2005, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But technically, once he bets the turn....if I dont raise, Im letting him see the river for no extra charge. Its almost like giving a free card

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really get this... if he pots the turn and you call, he's getting 2-1 on his money, the same as if he check-called your pot bet. Ignoring the bonus of being the aggressor, I don't see how it's the same as giving him a free card, just because you passed on the opportunity to charge him a steeper price than 2-1.

[ QUOTE ]
If he rivers a Ten, I will feel pretty dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't get it... you'd feel dumb if villain charged himself 2-1 in order to hit a 4 outer? (Edit: by 4 outer i was assuming villain had QT... obviously if he's got a nekkid T, it would be a 2 outer)

KoW

rikz · #7 11-03-2005, 02:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He could have a 9 but I doubt it and he could also have some other pocket pair but I doubt its higher than tens.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see people get too aggressive on paired boards, at least on line at NL $100, unless they have that open trip card.

Why not raise his flop bet to $70 and fold to a 3-bet or a push? After that, check/call small bets, but fold to another big bet from villain.

Won't the call/call/call line will cost more over the course of the hand to find out if he really has a 9?

On the other hand, it sounds like you have a good read that villain would bet like this with a pair, but play open trips differently. So, if that's your read, letting him bet/bet/bet his worse pair for you is probably the best.

Without a read like that, I want to raise the flop to find out how much villain really likes his hand on this paired board - ready to bail if I get too much action.

#8 11-03-2005, 02:53 PM

Raise on the turn to $150 or so and take it down. Even though UTG doesn't have odds to draw out, you might as well make him pay regardless. If UTG won't call a turn raise, he'll likely check/fold the river. I would only call the turn bet if you're sure he'll fire again on the river with an inferior hand. Not many 1/2 NLH players (in my experience) will do that.