I cost myself this hand

DRD66 · #1 11-03-2005, 12:36 PM

and didn't realize it until checking some hands in PT.
I think this is a leak, but don't know how big. I'd like opinions on possible holding for villian (and how likely), and where I screwed up.

Only seen villian play a few hands, not done anything terrible yet. Assume typical for the site/stakes.

Ultimate Bet 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 2 folds, MP3 raises, 2 folds, Hero calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 folds, MP3 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls.

River: (8.50 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, MP3 raises, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 12.50 BB

Goodnews · #2 11-03-2005, 12:45 PM

Lead the turn.

3-bet the river.

I put the Villain on AxT, AA, QQ, JJ, AK. Many people call the flop bet with 2nd pair to see if they can hit two pair. Villain definitely not put you on flush because the flop bet is deceptive.

Definitely lead the turn though, it gains you valuable information (ie slow play flop and raise turn w. top pair etc.), I say this because you will go to showdown with your flush.

Only leak in this play is the turn.

Swax · #3 11-03-2005, 12:56 PM

Don't know about the coldcall PF with six already folding.

I agree with Goodnews - I think you have to lead the turn here. However, if villain filled up on the river, I can't imagine that you would have won the hand by doing so. Am I missing something?

numeri · #4 11-03-2005, 01:00 PM

I don't know if I call this preflop. I'd like another cold-caller between. As you played it, lead the turn. Why in the world do you check/raise when you just bet the flop? Having the turn check through would be a travesty.

Don't worry about why you lost. Ask yourself this: Are you folding at any point? Is MP3 folding? Since both of the answers are no, there is nothing you could do to win the hand. You did, however, play it poorly.

bozlax · #5 11-03-2005, 01:00 PM

Flop: Since there was a PFR, I probably don't lead out this flop. Check-call; you're behind most of a reasonable pfr's hand-range, you've only got 2 opps so you lose your value if you lose UTG+2, the PFR is likely to bet it for you, and you're not really afraid of giving a free card.

Turn: Open-bet. You've made your hand, but it's vulnerable, and you want to get money in while you likely have the best hand.

River: I play it the same when the board pairs. If Villan had KK, 55 or the case T with a paired kicker, there's nothing you can do about it.

Where do you think you "cost" yourself this hand?

Obliky · #6 11-03-2005, 01:03 PM

I think i prefer c/r the flop and leading the turn, you have a moderate made hand and a good draw to a probable best hand.

Checkraising also has the advantage of trapping UTG+2 for 2 bets, and it looks stronger [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Also, i think by checking the turn you allow MP3 to take a free card..he has shown no strength post-flop so far and there is no reason to think he wont just check behind. So if your going to donk the flop i would suggest leading the turn too.

I think the river is ok.

@bsolute_luck · #7 11-03-2005, 01:04 PM

i would have lost a lot more on this hand. if he has a set of kings, he let you off cheap and there's not a whole lot you could do about it.

numeri · #8 11-03-2005, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think i prefer c/r the flop and leading the turn, you have a moderate made hand and a good draw to a probable best hand.

Checkraising also has the advantage of trapping UTG+2 for 2 bets, and it looks stronger [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]
C/R the flop drives UTG+2 out. Leading out is much better.

EDIT: Hey sweet, I have 1000 posts! Damn, I spend way too much time here. [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

deception5 · #9 11-03-2005, 01:09 PM

I like preflop and flop. I'd go ahead and lead the turn as well, makes it look more like you have a king than a flush and may give you a chance to 3-bet.

#10 11-03-2005, 01:11 PM

Flop: I might let the pfr bet, I think he will almost always. I would call and hope to get the straggler along.

(as played) After villian just calls the flop, I'd bet out on the turn & 3-bet.

It's hard to put villian on a hand given the go&stop action that he employs on the turn. Given the call on the turn, you seem to be ahead ( I don't think he has flush, KK or TT). I'm not giving him credit for a 55 or 88 due to the preflop raise. So I 3-bet the river given the chance. He probably has AT.