I'm not sure I did anything right on this hand

Luke · #1 09-03-2004, 03:51 PM

The PFlimper is new to the table and I have no notes on him.

The PFraiser has been at the table for a few orbits and has been playing tightly. I also saw him get tricky with AA but didn't know much more about him at the time.

How's my preflop call getting at least 4-1 and 5-1 if the BB calls, which was the most likely scenario? I felt I had good relative position to the raiser if I got a flop of my liking - I could CR or bet and hope to trap 3-bet, depending on the flop.

Who follows through and check 3-bets the flop? Who calls and leads the turn? Who folds?

All comments appreciated:

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Luke is SB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 (PFlimper) calls, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button (PFraiser) raises, Luke calls, BB folds, MP2 (PFlimper) calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Luke checks, PFlimper bets, PFraiser raises, Luke folds, PFlimper calls.

stoxtrader · #2 09-03-2004, 03:57 PM

The pre-flop call is fine. you are getting 4.5:1 and will need to make 3BB total if you flop a set to make it a profitable call.

I think you need to 3 bet this flop and see what the action is after that. There are plenty of hands these two guys can have an most of them don't involve a pair based on card frequesncy. one may even have A7 and drawing to a three-outer. if its capped on the turn you have a better idea of if you are against an overpair (though lots of players will cap a flush draw on the flop HU or 2 way thinking they also get bluffing equity).

Pot-A · #3 09-03-2004, 06:15 PM

I would consider 3-betting preflop, the reason being you'd rather be heads up on the flop or against many oponents. You will win a fair amount of the time heads-up, but against three you won't do so well unless you flop the set.

The flop play is weak-tight. You have an overpair to a board which contains all sorts of draws. You will win this pot enough to make it worth your while to hang around. Three-bet the flop, as you could easily be ahead at this point, and you might be able to push PFL out before the turn.

Nightwish · #4 09-03-2004, 08:10 PM

PFRaiser would have to be a major rock for me to fold on that flop. My default action would be to 3-bet.

I would also seriously consider 3-betting preflop, but a call is fine too.

stoxtrader · #5 09-03-2004, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would also seriously consider 3-betting preflop, but a call is fine too.

[/ QUOTE ]

into a non-steal raise out of the SB with 88. why? not saying its bad, just I wouldn't do it and want to know the merits.

Luke · #6 09-04-2004, 02:34 AM

I agree with you guys that the play on the flop was to 3-bet. I thought I made a mistake seconds later but I just wanted some reassurance.

As for the preflop call, I think 3-betting is a good play if I can be fairly certain the player is possibly making a loose isolation raise and I can get it headsup (which I didn't in this spot).

Anyway, the results didn't make me feel any better about the fold. The turn was the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and it went check, bet, call.

The river was the T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] for a final board of:

6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

It went check-check.

The limper turned over A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the raiser showed the winner A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

After seeing these hands I only felt more so that my fold was weak-tight, but I wanted some 2nd opinions as I was afraid the results were clouding my thoughts. Now it's clear, I botched this one. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Thanks guys.

Luke

Nightwish · #7 09-04-2004, 03:07 PM

There's only one MP limper to the button when the button decides to raise. His range of raising hands here could be very wide. In fact, you could very well have the best hand right now, but you need to get BB and MP out of there because overcards are deadly. Of course, if BB and MP are calling stations, then there's no point 3-betting.