Right Move

Ragnarok · #1 07-21-2005, 09:20 AM

First post, so if I get something wrong, let me know.

Pokerstars 10+1. TheDroid8 plays loose - no other reads.

Should I have called all in when near top of chip lead.

Pretty sure this is a good play, but lost last couple of stars SNG and need to check my sanity. Thinking was

pot odds 1.5
Outs = 14 (including nut flush)
Villian = flopped a set?

PokerStars Game #2149790836: Tournament #10305813, Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2005/07/20 - 22:27:19 (ET)
Table '10305813 1' Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: AcesN88 (4980 in chips)
Seat 4: LBW6 (1825 in chips)
Seat 5: unluckyfool (1415 in chips)
Seat 7: TheDroid8 (1060 in chips)
Seat 8: frogviking (2070 in chips)
Seat 9: jhkues (2150 in chips)
AcesN88: posts small blind 25
LBW6: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jhkues [Ad Qh]
unluckyfool: folds
TheDroid8: raises 150 to 200
frogviking: folds
jhkues: calls 200
AcesN88: folds
LBW6: folds
*** FLOP *** [7d 9d 4d]
TheDroid8: bets 860 and is all-in
jhkues: calls 860
*** TURN *** [7d 9d 4d] [Ks]
*** RIVER *** [7d 9d 4d Ks] [9s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TheDroid8: shows [8h 8d] (two pair, Nines and Eights)
jhkues: shows [Ad Qh] (a pair of Nines)
TheDroid8 collected 2195 from pot
TheDroid8 said, "phhhhhhhhhheeeeeeeeew"

mlagoo · #2 07-21-2005, 09:22 AM

i reraise preflop, but, having not reraised, would call the flop push.

bluefeet · #3 07-21-2005, 11:26 AM

There will be others that disagree, but I would fold PF. Let me ask you this: If shortie open-pushed PF would you call? I most certainly wouldn't. It's only L3 and you have a very healthy stack. I personally wouldn't put 1/2 my stack at risk at this point in the game. For this same reason, I don't feel a need to call a 4x with this hand either. Shortie will be looking at at least a flop pot equal to 1/2 his stack (assuming no one else calls). You will more than likely be facing an all-in decision on some street. If you aren't willing to put him in PF (which I'm not), then don't even make the call putting yourself in these situations.

Ps. There are two healthy stack behind you in the blinds. Either of which could wake up to a real hand. Your reluctance to put shortie in, sets up a great opportunity for big stack to come over the top chasing you out.

maddog2030 · #4 07-21-2005, 11:33 AM

This is a no brainer. At this level you're almost always going to be shown a pair or a flush draw, and you're ahead of both.

Ragnarok · #5 07-21-2005, 11:40 AM

You make a good point. I would not have called with a PF push. I think the Diamonds blinded me.

BTW, I found Bisonbisons converter. Here is the hand converted. Next time I will do this first.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter

SB (t4980)
BB (t1825)
UTG (t1415)
MP (t1060)
CO (t2070)
Hero (t2150)

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to t200, 1 fold, Hero calls t200, 2 folds.

Flop: (t475) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP bets t860 (All-In), Hero calls t860.

Turn: (t2195) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t2195) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t2195

SammyKid11 · #6 07-21-2005, 11:45 AM

Mistake number one is calling pre-flop with AQo facing a pre-flop raise with 400 BB's in your stack. Problem with this play is...a) you don't need the action, b) 9 times out of 10 you're a coin flip at best, c) it takes you directly to...

Mistake number two...which is calling the all-in bet with absolutely nothing except the flush draw. Now, when you have a flush draw + a pair, possibly...or when you have a flush draw + an open-ended str8 draw (or sometimes gutshot), fine. But with nothing but the straight draw, you've just made a bet getting 1.5-to-1 odds on a draw which you're about 2.2-to-1 to make. Don't do it.

Anyway...yeah, don't do it.

Oh, and by the way...don't do it.

SammyKid11 · #7 07-21-2005, 11:53 AM

[ QUOTE ]
This is a no brainer. At this level you're almost always going to be shown a pair or a flush draw, and you're ahead of both.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are absolutely not ahead of both. On the flop, against the pair of 8's, our hero was about 48-52. Those odds are made worse if villain were to show 99, 77, or 44 (which isn't at all out of the realm of possibility given his all-in play at the sight of 3 diamonds). Then there's the possibility that he's already got the flush.

You're behind everything villain MAY have except a lower flush draw...which I SUPPOSE could be KdQx or KxQd. But that's the only thing even a fairly aggressive villain is raising with that you're currently ahead of.

schwza · #8 07-21-2005, 12:09 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i reraise preflop, but, having not reraised, would call the flop push.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah

maddog2030 · #9 07-21-2005, 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You are absolutely not ahead of both.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes you are.

[ QUOTE ]
On the flop, against the pair of 8's, our hero was about 48-52.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is about the strongest hand I'd expect to see barring trips.

Also note this is a pair AND a flush draw.

[ QUOTE ]
You're behind everything villain MAY have except a lower flush draw...which I SUPPOSE could be KdQx or KxQd. But that's the only thing even a fairly aggressive villain is raising with that you're currently ahead of.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're overestimating the opponents at this level. I'd expect to a see a villian at this level to push any diamond he would've raised with. And this is why I think it makes the call a no brainer.

bluefeet · #10 07-21-2005, 12:24 PM

i think you're confused....villian had the 88. hero had AQo.