AT as BB facing a raise - Page 4

cold_cash · #31 07-26-2004, 05:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
See, I would think that 3-betting here for a SB would be a cheaper way to find out just how I am doing? A call nearly guarantees that I am ahead, but a raise *should* show that he isn't afraid of the ace. I can't give him credit for the ace yet, but I think a flop 3-bet is a cheap way to get an idea if he is holding it. Perhaps it should be known that I just lost a hand almost exactly like this last night, so this situation and my loss is still fresh on my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

3-betting the flop is wrong, and only negative things can result from it, whether hero is ahead or behind.

Go up and re-read Chris' post.

brian0729 · #32 07-26-2004, 05:14 PM

That's why I fold.

Imagine if there had been only one Ace on the flop, (which is far more likely than two).

I would play this hand the same way if there were only one A on the flop.

Check call the flop
Check call the turn
and bet the river.

Why does this guy have to have a big A? to be raising here. He is ahead of a slew of hands and is only behind a few hands. This is an easy hand to play.

Aviston · #33 07-26-2004, 05:19 PM

Why do you think check-calling the flop is better than betting out in this situation?

Chris Daddy Cool · #34 07-26-2004, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Go up and re-read Chris' post.

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to see my posts are respected here. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
Too bad my play isn't. [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

brian0729 · #35 07-26-2004, 05:23 PM

I don't think 3-betting is correct in this spot because you are either way ahead or way behind.

Read Chris's post that starts with the above. Its right on.

TrailofTears · #36 07-26-2004, 05:24 PM

Well, I guess we are just going to have agree to disagree on this one. It is no doubt a marginal situation, and a rare one at that, so either choice won't have a huge effect on your long-term BR. It really is out of your (meaning everyone's) control at this point since we don't have a great read on the player, and at this level of play, even a read is not always a sure thing. You guys make some good points and they are well received, but I would still act as I have said for the reasons I have given, but I don't think your reasons are wrong, just different. Now will someone please tell me how it ended up, my curiosity is killing me.

Aviston · #37 07-26-2004, 05:28 PM

Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 6 folds, Hero calls,

Flop: (4.40 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, UTG+2 raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.20 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.20 BB

Results:
Hero shows Tc As (three of a kind, aces).
UTG+2 shows Kd Ac (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins 8.20 BB. 

Owned. He was a dirty, dirty bastard.

Chris Daddy Cool · #38 07-26-2004, 05:31 PM

The main problem with your argument is that you're saying it'll be a "cheaper" way to see how you're doing in this hand. However, the real reason why it's bad is because YOU CANNOT FOLD this hands heads up. Even if he caps a 3-bet you still have to see a showdown because there are enough instances where he'll try to be pushing you off your hand. Seeing as you HAVE TO see a showdown, the "cheapest" way to see where you are is simply calling down.

The added benefit, of course, is if you're ahead, meaning you'll be waaay ahead, you let him bluff or bet weaker hands that he may have folded to a 3-bet which would have been disasterous.

TrailofTears · #39 07-26-2004, 05:44 PM

That is a very good point. Thinking about it after you put it that way, this is what I get. If I 3-bet and he calls, and is thus behind, I bet out each round thereafter and he calls me down. If he caps my 3-bet, he bets out each round and I call down. Either way, unless I am capable of laying it down to a cap (which I am not) I will not be gaining any advantage to my 3-bet. Thanks CDC and c_c and others for tossing this idea around for a bit.

TrailofTears · #40 07-26-2004, 05:46 PM

You sound like a woman who just got out of an abusive relationship.