JTo Thoughts on Flop Play?

PJM1206 · #1 11-24-2005, 11:00 AM

Nothing special about vilan. He is semi-loose passive but not many hands palyed with him maybe 30 hands so no real good info on him.

PokerStars 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, Hero calls.

I just call the bet with the intention of raising on the flop. Seems like most players in the blinds bet out on flop to try to take pot right there even if the flop isnt even close. Because of this I opt to just call hoping to get one big bet out of him.

Turn: (2.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

Bad turn card. So the question is should I have raised or waited to see river card? I raise partly because that was my intial intent ( not necessarliy a good reason) and I am concerned that there are 2 draws on the board the flush and the str8. It has been my observation that when one is raised on the turn the other opponent will typically call seeing the river card so my raise isnt going to chase him away most likely making my raise on the turn questionable. What you think?

River: (6.50 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

masse75 · #2 11-24-2005, 11:09 AM

I think it's okay. Raising there won't protect you from a flush or OESD. You're probably way ahead now, but the flop is so coordinated you need to pray for blanks.

#3 11-24-2005, 11:10 AM

Raise the flop, particularly given your read. Villain isn't folding anything on that board, and may check the turn. In addition, if the villain is intent on seeing showdown you win only a SB more by raising the turn and too many cards can come that kill the action.

I take the line you took against LAG-ish players, not loose-passives. Not sure what you're beating on the river to justify the call.

Edit: Yeah. Preflop sucks.

#4 11-24-2005, 11:17 AM

Fold or raise preflop IMO. Then on this draw heavy board raise the flop. SB could be betting out with a lot of hands here. The turn raise seems fine, I think you are still ahead a large percentage of the time.

#5 11-24-2005, 11:21 AM

I think two pairs with JT makes for very poor candidates for slowplaying, both in limped and raised pots. JT alone on the flop makes the board pretty draw heavy. Throw in a couple of cards of the same suit like you have here, and I think raising is almost a mandatory action, esp. on micros.

adsman · #6 11-24-2005, 11:25 AM

Preflop is raise or fold. For me it depends on the players behind me - sometimes I raise this here, sometimes I fold it.
You have top 2 pair on a draw heavy board. You have two choices; go to war on the flop or wait for a safe card on the turn. Well, you waited and then you went to war on a scary card. Doesn't make much sense to me. I call the river because I really can't put him on an Ace, although he might have the 9. A hand like J9 is conceivable.

PJM1206 · #7 11-24-2005, 11:35 AM

Good comments. I didnt like the way I played this to start out with so your comments were helpfull. In retrospect I think I should have raised pre-flop. I didnt because I studderd... I didnt think I could steal the blinds but I didnt know so I called... I should have tested vilian and the hand would have played out differently. If I knew with more confidence that I couldnt steal the blind I think I would have folded this hand.

trigeek08 · #8 11-24-2005, 11:43 AM

Why no raise pf?

I like the turn raise, you are still ahead here more often than not. If you are 3-bet...

DCWildcat · #9 11-24-2005, 04:19 PM

Bad no raise PF.

Flop I usually raise, but it's not terrible since the pot is small. I'm folding quickly on the river.

TomBrooks · #10 11-24-2005, 11:03 PM

You got a flop with two to a flush and two to a straight in the playing zone. Your probably ahead now but very vulnerable. I raise the flop and hope he folds his gutshot, AT, KQ or whatever. If he doesn't want to fold, I'm charging him as much as I can to continue.