Teacher's pet

[Jimbo]

Andy I suggest you live in the Middle East for 2 years and then come back and tell us they are not backward. I have and they are.

[andyfox]

Are they barbarian hordes?

[Jimbo]

"Are they barbarian hordes?" Barbarian no but they certainly come in hordes. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

barbarian- 1 : of or relating to a land, culture, or people alien and usually believed to be inferior to another land, culture, or people
2 : lacking refinement, learning, or artistic or literary culture

horde- a : a political subdivision of central Asian nomads b : a people or tribe of nomadic life
2 : a teeming crowd or throng :

[Zeno]

Barbarian-

2 : lacking refinement, learning, or artistic or literary culture

Horde-

2 : a teeming crowd or throng :

Sounds like the Los Angeles basin is full of barbarian hordes to me. [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img] I have been there - and there is no there, there. [img]/forums/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] A wasteland of barbarian hordes in our own backyard. [img]/forums/images/icons/shocked.gif[/img]

-Zeno

[Cyrus]

Democracies have historically treated other regimes equally badly as non-democratic regimes have. Case in point, the most ancient modern democary in Europe, Britain. Show me a continent and I'll show you a British massacre of natives.

Of course, you are missing the most important fact in this discussion : when (self-proclaimed) democracies reserve only for themselves the right to better weaponry and also choose to apply the force of that weaponry outside any international boundary, with at best an indirect and fuzzy mandate by their people's representatives, why, that renders those democracies no better than tin pot dictatorships.

"Much of the Middle East is that much backwards and more."

As if that gives the West the right to embark on a modern-day crusade. And with Israel riding all over human rights, treaties, SC decisions, WMD restrictions or American guidance. You do realize that it's this kind of talk and attitude exactly, when it emanates outta Washington, that has most Europeans deeply worried about the current American leadership.

[Zeno]

“Show me a continent and I'll show you a British massacre of natives.”

Show me a continent and I'll show you a massacre of natives by natives. Point being no one group or association of peoples, however organized, has any "high moral ground" to stand on. How did the Aztecs and Incas become empires before the Spanish swooped in with their bloodlust, religion, and thirst for gold? This type of behavior has been going on throughout mankind's history on small to grand scales and will not abate until the Archangel Gabriel blows his scared trumpet and the chosen leap into the heavens with roars of joy, and the infidels and heathen begin their lowly descent into the bowels of Hell.

Shalom

-Zeno

[andyfox]

"no one group or association of peoples, however organized, has any "high moral ground" to stand on"

-Exactly the point Cyrus and I are making. M would disagree.


"This type of behavior has been going on throughout mankind's history on small to grand scales and will not abate until the Archangel Gabriel blows his scared trumpet and the chosen leap into the heavens with roars of joy, and the infidels and heathen begin their lowly descent into the bowels of Hell."

Wow!

[MMMMMM]

They may not be inherently inferior, but their culture certainly is. Hence even the term "barbarian" is not entirely non-applicable. Also, their learning is generally inferior and contains more fallacies. So even according to your quoted definitions, the term "barbarian" seems to apply somewhat.

[MMMMMM]

But the answer to your objections is simple, Cyrus: just convert all those totalitarian regimes into democracies, and there won't be any non-democratic regimes left for the democracies to ride roughshod over. And since democracies treat their own people better than do dictatorships, the world will then be a better place.

[MMMMMM]

I disagree if you say that never does any group or association have high moral ground to stand on. However often your statement is true.

Gotta be precise, because leaving out such things occasionally makes a big difference.