Baseball Talk: Choking the Chicken

Zeno · #1 05-11-2003, 09:35 PM

Recently saw ESPN video classic (in pizza place owned by sports nut) of game 2 of the 1973 World Series between Oakland and the Mets. Vida Blue was pitching. What was most interesting to me was that most of the hitters really choked up on the bat when hitting. Way up, about 1/3 for some players and this was down consistently as pine tar was stained up on the bat. Almost no batting gloves either. I never followed baseball until the late 80's so this was a bit strange. Super quick, short punchy swings. No one really does this much anymore, in fact most have the bottom hand almost off the bat. I'm sure some baseball followers can fill in the gaps of the history on the hitting style changes for me. Thanks.

As an aside I do remember that when Arizona beat the Yanks in game 7, bottom of the 9th- Gonzo choked up on the bat some to get a quicker swing in on Rivera's fastball for the little blooper that won the series for the Diamondbacks. [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img] My "other" team besides the Mariners.

Also, Sunday night baseball is great, a relaxing capper to weekend sports. Right now the Twins are beating up the Red Sox, 8-zip. [img]/forums/images/icons/smirk.gif[/img]

-Zeno

Sooga · #2 05-11-2003, 10:55 PM

I am not sure if these changes in batting styles was caused by the evolution in the bats, or the other way around. The chicken and the egg argument, I guess. Back in the 70's, the bats were 'typically' shaped, with a fairly thick handle and a thicker barrel. After the game went through the power explosion in the 90's, bats with humongous barrels and extremely skinny bats were produced, in order to facilitate enormous bat speed, and to create a larger 'sweet spot'. To take advantage of this sort of bat, obviously you would want to hold your hands as low as they could go, so that you could swing the barrel through the zone as fast as possible. Not sure if this answers your question or not, but whatever, I guess I'm just rambling. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

andyfox · #3 05-12-2003, 01:14 AM

Steady Eddie made things interesting in the 9th, didn't he?

The Red Sox seem to have something this year. If they can figure out the bullpen mess, they might be tough.

The one thing I notice in watching games from 20-30 years ago is how much quicker they were. There was much less time between pitches, it seems. I've been a fan since 1960, never noticed it as it was happening.

I don't think the Diamondbacks are going to be able to make it back to the playoffs this year. If I had to pick a team to win it all right now, I'd go with Oakland. If only they can survive having a 2 games to none lead in the first round. . .

Ray Zee · #4 05-12-2003, 10:09 AM

they choked up to get more bat speed. also many stood closer to the plate and didnt want to hit the ball close to the handle. yogi berra was the one i remember as choking up the most. players werent concerned as much with getting hit with a pitch and crowded the plate. it was common for a pit
chure to dust him off with inside throws. not so much anymore. too bad as alot of the character has been removed from the game.
with equipment changing so much it could be any reason, as sports change quickly with the new technology.

offTopic · #5 05-12-2003, 04:49 PM

I hate to disagree with RZ, but the choking up was more for control than bat speed, IMO. During the late 60s, early 70s, mounds and strike zones favored the pitcher - look at baseball-reference.com for pitching vs. hitting stats for that era.

Players also favored bats with larger handles, so that bat was a little unwieldy. Part of the reason for this, however, was that pitchers were allowed to pitch inside without fear of ejection, so were more inclined to try to "get in a batter's kitchen". The big-handled bat allowed the batter to potentially fight off an inside pitch and still get a hit vs. a broken bat grounder/popup.

Finally, during that time, there was actually a stigma surrounding strikeouts - they were nowhere near as accepted for offensive players as they are now, so choking up allowed the batter to have a better chance at making contact and avoiding the strikeout.

Now, the emphasis is more on power, and the most frequently seen models of bats have thin handles (and some players even shave the handles down). This is done to increase bat speed, as the mass of the bat is concentrated more in the barrel. Nobody cares much if you strike out 150 times as long as you get your 35 jacks and still manage to hit .300.

Incidentally, I think your 1/3 estimate is a bit exagerrated. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Most hitters came up no more than an inch or two off the knob, and the biggest "choke artist" I remember seeing growing up was Gene Richards of the Padres, who might've been up 3 or 4 inches (on what was likely a 31 or 32 inch bat).

Ray Zee · #6 05-12-2003, 08:53 PM

what you say is true, but i remember Berra saying he choked up to get the bat around faster.

Zeno · #7 05-13-2003, 12:58 AM

Thank you for the explanation. I did notice that the players were closer to the plate; in fact it was the second thing to stand out besides the choke-up. And yes, my 1/3 was an exaggeration. But it was a stunning thing to see because so many players now days are so low on the bat; the differential really stands out.

-Zeno

Zeno · #8 05-13-2003, 01:26 AM

Unsteady Eddie in that ninth inning. He looks excellent right now so he healed up well.

Boston will probably win the wild card so the Mariners will have to win their division. Right now they are tied with Oakland. They have a chance but I must be realistic and say it is a small one.

Diamondbacks are hurting. Counsell is out for at least 2 months, pitching injuries are killing them, hitting bad etc etc. They will be Lucky to be a 500 club this year unless some miracle happens.

But it is one very long season........

-Zeno