Weak-tight AJs hand.

#1 10-04-2005, 12:00 AM

10 handed, 1/2 limit hold'em, Poker Room
Early in session, villains are unknowns.

Preflop
Hero is in SB and dealt A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

2 folds, UTG+2 raises, 2 folds, MP3 calls, Hero calls, BB folds.

Flop:
J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 calls, hero calls.

Is the check call line on the flop standard, or should I take a more aggresive stance early? I don't like betting into a preflop raiser and a preflop cold caller with just middle pair, and I'm not sure if check raising accomplishes much, espeically OOP. So is a check call good here?

Turn
2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero checks, UTG+2 bets, MP3 calls, Hero folds?!

Obviously this is just terrible. I could have the best hand in a biggish pot, and if not I still probably have odds to justify continuning. So anyway, is the appropriate line in this pot just call down all the way, or is there a better way to play it? Also please flame the turn fold, a thorough flaming should discourage me from doing something like this again.

JoshuaD · #2 10-04-2005, 04:29 AM

Yea, these kinds of hands are sometimes confusing for us SSH'ers. It's definitely best to just call down here.

A flop raise would just grow the pot when you're behind, and keep it small while you're ahead.

You're too good to fold out, you're too weak to raise, so just call call call.

There are a few times you'll find a fold on later streets -- when there's a raise, or when particularly ugly cards, like a Q here, fall off.

Generally you're just calling down in this situation. Which is pretty rare.

lautzutao · #3 10-04-2005, 04:32 AM

I don't like calling down in this situation. PFR is showing no signs of slowing down and we have an Overcall to boot. I think you played this hand fine.

hemstock · #4 10-04-2005, 05:01 AM

I would lead the flop, call if he raises and muck the turn UI.

POKhER · #5 10-04-2005, 05:19 AM

I think i bet the flop, see what UTG does.

If he raises i'll assume AA/AK/KK although this is a small range he's unknown and doesn't seem to be worried about us. However as we've shown no aggression he wouldn't be concerned.

So bet the river, Call a raise and fold the turn UI.

You're dominated by KK/AA/AK.

p.s. Post pot sizes if you can.

TennesseeKid · #6 10-04-2005, 05:20 AM

Grunch:

Preflop: I call here, lately I think maybe I'm being too loose but I call

Flop: fold (scared of King with raise from UTG+2)

Turn: fold (four flush possibilites, over cards, straight draws, anything better than middle pair)

@bsolute_luck · #7 10-04-2005, 06:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

Preflop: I call here, lately I think maybe I'm being too loose but I call

Flop: fold (scared of King with raise from UTG+2)

Turn: fold (four flush possibilites, over cards, straight draws, anything better than middle pair)

[/ QUOTE ]

are you looking at the same hand? four flush possibilities? what on earth does that mean?

to OP: really if you're calling that flop, the turn hasn't changed anything at this point.

TennesseeKid · #8 10-04-2005, 06:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Grunch:

Preflop: I call here, lately I think maybe I'm being too loose but I call

Flop: fold (scared of King with raise from UTG+2)

Turn: fold (four flush possibilites, over cards, straight draws, anything better than middle pair)

[/ QUOTE ]

are you looking at the same hand? four flush possibilities? what on earth does that mean?

to OP: really if you're calling that flop, the turn hasn't changed anything at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, not as in 4 the number as in there are 2 diamonds on the board.

lautzutao · #9 10-04-2005, 07:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
to OP: really if you're calling that flop, the turn hasn't changed anything at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying nothing has changed and we should fold, or are you saying nothing has changed and should continue to call down?

@bsolute_luck · #10 10-04-2005, 07:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
to OP: really if you're calling that flop, the turn hasn't changed anything at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying nothing has changed and we should fold, or are you saying nothing has changed and should continue to call down?

[/ QUOTE ]

we overcalled on the flop figuring our 2nd pair is best. that hasn't changed on the turn. but if we now fear the King, we should have folded the flop.

so i guess i'm saying we should continue to call down based on our flop decision.