What do you limp?

[pooh74]

I was going to elaborate some more but decided not to and I'll just say the obvious: This question is so "feel" dependent that it cannot be answered. Now before you jump all over me for saying "feel" Ill explain what I mean. I mean that basically, feel consists of all of those variables and sub-variables that are too numerous to list, but after having played 5000+ of these things, you sort of don't have to spell them out when in game time. (I realize in L1 where starting stacks are still intact, these variables become somewhat eliminated but there are still things like #of limpers, previously raised pots PF, agression frequency in players left to act PF and prepost/flop etc...)

I have no problems playing by a strict set of opening hand criteria either, but, I think with experience its better without such a thing.

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I have no problems playing by a strict set of opening hand criteria either, but, I think with experience its better without such a thing.

[/ QUOTE ]I'm not looking for a formulaic approach, rather I'm trying to figure out what types of hands people do limp. Then look at the benefits and drawbacks of limping those hands and figure out for myself whether it is worth limping these hands. Others may look at the same information and draw a different conclusion. To get at the hand types, I had hoped to talk in generalities rather than some thing like: with exactly one limper, >10.2% of the chips, three players yet to act who have limped previously, a cautious player in the BB, etc.

[zipppy]

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So, what do you limp with?

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EP I'm always in raise/fold mode, I don't have any limping hands on a full table


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so from UTG, in the first hand, are you raising or folding JJ? 1010? 99? I'm curious because the set value of these hands is fantastic, but rarely will you play out one of these hands early in an STT where they will take down a pot unimproved.

I like to limp with mid-pairs up to JJ in EP early in the game. Some of this also has to do with managing pot size, which I'm not sure if anyone has addressed. Sometimes good hands are fine to limp with, instead of raising, from early-mid position since a large raise later won't mean as much if a player with no perception of pot odds "feels" like they've committed a lot of chips to the pot already (calling a preflop raise, etc).

just some thoughts...

>>>ZIPPPY

[Melchiades]

Thats a whole lot of hands I fold without even considering playing. Limping JTs from EP seems partuculary EV-.

I've found that limping with middle pairs makes it easy to paid off if you do hit the set on the flop because it is hard for the other person to put you on pocket pair. Also, if you miss the flop, it is easy to get away from the hand.

[tripdad]

levels I and II (and under ideal conditions...ie, not a whole lot of craziness):

EP limp: 88-TT, AJs, KQs...and sometimes just limp w/AQo.
MPlimp: 55-77, KQo, ATs, KJs.
LP limp: any pair, AJo, QJs, T9s, JTs

for both MP and LP limps, there must be other limpers for me to play. some of these i also fold of course if there aren't enough limpers, or there is a fool behind me, and i muck most of them if it gets raised, depending of course on the size of raise and how many others called it.

for levels III and up, i generally do not limp except to mix it up sometimes.

tripdad

[tripdad]

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EP - limp with 4's - 8's, AJo, KQo, QJs, JTs, (ATs, A9s if above avg chip stack)
MP - KJo, A8s, A7s (middle SC's if above avg chip stack)
LP - KTs, QTs, (small SC's if above avg chip stack)

I'm sure i've missed a few and by no means do I use this exclusively, have folded these hands and raised with these hands. so much is read dependent, stack dependent, other players stack size dependent, # of players left and your table image up to this point.

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you need to remember that hold'em is a battle for the blinds. when the blinds are so small, you shouldn't limp with troublesome hands such as AJo and KQo in early position, and KJo in MP, or any of the suited rag aces, just to name some (there are a lot of trouble hands on your list). the blinds just aren't big enough to risk your stack on.

tripdad

[tigerite]

This is a better list, I think though you'd be better off mucking AJs and KQs from up front. They're not too bad to play, though.

I'd replace ATs with AJs in MP, bin KQs in EP, and probably also remove KJs. Actually KJ is just a very hard hand to play for profit, even from LP

[Jbrochu]

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so from UTG, in the first hand, are you raising or folding JJ? 1010? 99? I'm curious because the set value of these hands is fantastic, but rarely will you play out one of these hands early in an STT where they will take down a pot unimproved.


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I know this question was addressed to Marwan, but I thought I would offer my 2-cents as well since I don't often open limp early in STTs. It's important to first note that I play at Stars with the deeper starting stacks and might well play differently at Party.

From UTG in the early levels I generally open raise with any pocket pair that I would call a raise with had I open limped instead. In general, this means 77 and up. I'll usually fold 66 and lower unless the table has shown a willingness to let a bunch of limpers see a cheap flop.

Once in a great while, if it's too early for the table to have a read on me, I'll open limp AA from UTG.

[pooh74]

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This is a better list, I think though you'd be better off mucking AJs and KQs from up front. They're not too bad to play, though.

I'd replace ATs with AJs in MP, bin KQs in EP, and probably also remove KJs. Actually KJ is just a very hard hand to play for profit, even from LP

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All of this advice above is very very good, yes, even at stars...not that my approval means anything, but I agree.