KK in trouble ... or not?

[Kirkrrr]

I think that's absolutely horrible advice. As far as since when being weak-tight has been a bad thing... uh, since they invented NL? If the board came a monotone 789, I could definitely see a fold, but in that spot you HAVE to push or you'll just get run over, and save the chips on that hand to give them away later regardless.

If you wait for the nuts to put your chips in and fold everything else every time, I'd imagine that your poker career would be short and very unsatisfying.

Kirk

I like the BB's play a lot post-flop, not preflop, since he's out of position.

He figures you have a big hand that will be tough to lay down and he figures the button could be drawing, since he didn't re-raise.

With his flop re-raise he knocks out the button, who could be fishing and playing around with that 7 Q 9 flop, he could have J10 himself (the button) and then he gets you to commit a lot of chips.

[Kirkrrr]

You have to know who you're playing against in order to do that, imo. If a rock raises and pots the flop, fire ahead, you know he's got a hand. Against an aggrssive player I'd be more inclined to try lead the flop, call the inevitable raise, and check-raise the turn.

what i'm seeing (can be wrong, of course) is that average players are afraid of big flop check-raises and will get away from most marginal hands, but bet them again on the turn.

Any general thoughts on that?

Kirk [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

[Jason Strasser]

This raise is scary, no doubt. Here's the thing. Most legitimate players would not raise a queen on this flop, because the raise will often get called by only better hands... If of course the raise will get called by worse hands, then it makes sense... But many players will lay down JJ or TT to a raise here so its not in the best interest of someone holding a queen to raise, especially on a semi-coordinated flop.

The problem is this, you cant lay your hand down because you really can't trust that your opponent is not raising a worse hand for value. It seems unlikely that your opponent is bluffing because the pot is protected by the idiot who called your bet and will probably continue to call down with anything. Even so, the enemy in this hand could be raising a queen here or even isolating a worse hand than a queen to get heads up vs the donkey. Plus you arent very deep and you have an overpair. I dont think you can lay this down happily.

-Jason

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You know you're drawing to two outs

[/ QUOTE ]
This is where you go wrong. Nobody in the world can narrow another players holdings down to one (1) specific hand based on this little information.

This holds especially true in a low-buy-in tournament, where much of the betting and raising is highly impulsive and illogical.

McMelchior (Johan)

[/ QUOTE ]

You are not reading my post correctly. I've tried to make clear that I am *not* putting him squarely on 97, but see that as the most likely hand. I am putting him on *any* two pair, and possibly a set. So:

97, Q7, Q9, 77, 99.

Players make illogical moves in these types of tournaments, which is why I'm not ruling out that he called in the BB with Q7 or 79 or Q9 getting 5:1 on his call.

What's more important, and what I'm more sure of, as I said before, is that against all those callers you are drawing to two outs, someone has better than TP . You're not even considering the button player, he could also have you beat. My point is that out of the 3 people who called you, I'm certain that one has two pair or better, and that when I get raised I'm out like R Kelly when her parents come home. I might consider calling and re-evaluating on the turn, I'd have to think about that.

The way button played it to this point is exactly how I'd play anything better than TP, especially with a set on that board. You can't totally rule him out.

[Whitey]

Just making sure your saying AQ or KQ should flat call here with these stacks and that board??

I'm not saying its wrong, I'm curious as to your reasons.

[Dave D]

[ QUOTE ]
I woulda gone over the top on him. Too many donks, especially in low buyins, will go all in w/TPTK. And some of you say that reraising w/a set at the flop is a bad player move. I really beg to differ on that. Based on comments from posters, I'm now inclined to do that move because a lot of you will read it as a bluff or draw bet, and I can get paid off big.

[/ QUOTE ]

Villian in this hand didn't reraise QQ PF in the BB with 3 other people to see the flop, that was horrible. He then sucked out on hero and made someone who was willing to pay him off fold (button) and got lucky when hero pushed. Villian is borderline retarded in this hand, do not imitate him.

*We* are not 95% of the people who play in tournaments. *We* are the thinking players. Do not base your actions in tournaments based on how thinking players would react.