The river bet game

BobboFitos · #1 03-24-2005, 01:42 PM

yesterday was a good session, minus a bunch of hands where my river play was suspect. so I'm postng a few hands and interested in what river action I should take. i'll make it a game, too, with either an "A,B, or C" answer, and points to each answer (yadda yadda) also if my play is poor on preceeding streets, say so.

This post contains 6 hands, also, so if you dont want to play "the river game," well.. ignore this =)

Winner gets... I dont know, someone make up an award or somehting (?)

Hand number 1

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($19.35)
SB ($291.70)
BB ($61.75)
UTG ($99.85)
MP1 ($99)
Hero ($82.85)
CO ($181.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, Hero calls $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($5) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($5) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets $4, Hero raises to $12, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls $8.

River: ($29) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ?

On river pot is 29, I have 70 ish he has me covered.
A. Check
B. Bet 10 to 15 (shade less then halfpot)
C. GO FOR THE GUSTO, BIG BET! (Full pot or more)

Hand number 2 (another KQ)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

MP1 ($40)
MP2 ($167.55)
CO ($59.35)
Button ($41.55)
Hero ($176.70)
BB ($24.50)
UTG ($40)
UTG+1 ($131.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP1 posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 (poster) checks, 1 fold, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($7) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (7 players)
Hero bets $5, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $5, CO folds, Button folds.

Turn: ($17) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $12, MP1 calls $12.

River: ($41) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ?

On river pot is 41, villain has 22 I have more
A. Check with the intention of folding to a bet
B. Check with the intention of calling a bet
C. Put the rest of his stack in (half pot)

Hand 3 (hit my card for free)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG ($41.75)
UTG+1 ($35.05)
MP1 ($45.40)
MP2 ($51.75)
Hero ($91.50)
Button ($40.40)
SB ($123.80)
BB ($100.70)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 3 folds, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($4) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($4) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $5, UTG folds, Hero raises to $13, SB folds, BB calls $8.

River: ($30) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

On river pot is 30, I have 78ish, he has slightly more
A. Check behind
B. Bet halfpot (or so, so 14 to 18 range), fold to checkraise
C. Same as B but call checkraise
D. Bet alot (25+) naturally all money goes in if BB gets frisky

Hand 4 (I'm very embarrassed by this one; this hand was bad, and here is typical "do as I say, not as I do")

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($22)
MP1 ($167.55)
MP2 ($58.35)
CO ($40.55)
Hero ($197.70)
SB ($23.50)
BB ($39)
UTG ($130.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero calls $1, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($4.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $4, BB folds, UTG raises to $8, MP1 folds, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $12, UTG calls $12.

River: ($44.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero ?

On river pot is 44, we both are still very deep (he has 110? I have more) *note: This player was fairly straightforward, his chance of a turn c/r was ~1%. I also kept wanting to play pots with him as he was straightforward in the level 1 sense; he made alot of money (later and prior to this hand) with trips no kicker, making a "tough" call vs a flush draw.
A. Check
B. Bet 20 to 26
C. Overbet! 40+

Hand 5

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($47.55)
SB ($62.85)
BB ($48.65)
UTG ($118.50)
Hero ($92.95)
CO ($164.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($8.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($8.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5, BB calls $5.

River: ($18.50) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero ?

On the river the pot is 18, BB has 40ish left I have him covered.
A. Check (if anyone considers that, you fail no matter how good your other answers are)
B. 10 to 12 range (halfpot ish)
C. full pot (range of 17 to 20)
D. Overbet, lets put him in! (40) ~ a MoH esque river move.

Hand 6 (last one)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($136.80)
Hero ($126.85)
UTG ($33.15)
MP1 ($82.35)
MP2 ($102.30)
CO ($5.75)
Button ($20)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($4) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: ($4) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, UTG folds, MP2 calls $3, SB folds.

River: ($10) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ?

River pot is 10, MP has 95+ I have a hedge more
A. Check with the intention of folding
B. Check with the intention of calling
C. Fire a bet 6 to 10 with the intention of calling a raise
D. Fire a bet 6 to 10 with the intention of folding to a raise (blocking bet)
E. Big bet! 11+

I'll generate a scale of points assigned to everything. I actually think the river play of a few hands is fairly interesting, others are more standard. I'll post what I did / points to everything in a day (or at the end of the day)

steaknshake925 · #2 03-24-2005, 02:40 PM

hand 1:
At first i thought check behind since there's a very good chance he has a missed draw, but now i think bet halfpot because KJ and K10 will probly pay off.

hand 2:
i like betting his stack(halfpot) to get value from smaller kings. if you check and he moves in i think you have to call, so its better to make the value bet. also he has a short stack which means he's probly weak which increases ur chances of getting called by Kx.

hand 3
how about a stab on the flop? its pretty raggedy and you have outs.
on the river i check. theres not many hands that you beat that will call. the chances of him having a 7 and paying off is pretty small, and a 5 probly bets the river. since hes BB, he might have a higher straight like 36 or 68 which he checked but will call a bet with.

hand 4
if hes really straightforward you can bet small say 1/4 pot so that a ten will call. otherwise check behind the river. Also, in the future try to pair your kicker on the river.

hand 5
bet halfpot or smaller. he cant have a very big hand and will probly fold to a big bet. next best is to try to MoH him if hes really weak.

hand 6
i like a small blockin bet because a small ace or a seven might call. of course, fold if you get raised.

BobboFitos · #3 03-24-2005, 10:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
hand 1:
At first i thought check behind since there's a very good chance he has a missed draw, but now i think bet halfpot because KJ and K10 will probly pay off.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 pts, I agree, a halfpot was in order

[ QUOTE ]

hand 2:
i like betting his stack(halfpot) to get value from smaller kings. if you check and he moves in i think you have to call, so its better to make the value bet. also he has a short stack which means he's probly weak which increases ur chances of getting called by Kx.

[/ QUOTE ]

pefect analysis, 5 pts total

[ QUOTE ]

hand 3
how about a stab on the flop? its pretty raggedy and you have outs.
on the river i check. theres not many hands that you beat that will call. the chances of him having a 7 and paying off is pretty small, and a 5 probly bets the river. since hes BB, he might have a higher straight like 36 or 68 which he checked but will call a bet with.

[/ QUOTE ]

flop bet might be ok, but 3 opponents I'd rather just check back. Also not sure how great a few of my outs are.

5 pts total

[ QUOTE ]

hand 4
if hes really straightforward you can bet small say 1/4 pot so that a ten will call. otherwise check behind the river. Also, in the future try to pair your kicker on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he has a 2 based on turn and river passivity? This is technically 3pts, as he'll call, but it wasn't an option, so I'm making it 2 :P 7 pts total

[ QUOTE ]

hand 5
bet halfpot or smaller. he cant have a very big hand and will probly fold to a big bet. next best is to try to MoH him if hes really weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, new guy, he WAS really weak, (so I *should've* MoHed) but against a generic opponent the bet stands, 3 pt. 10 total.

[ QUOTE ]

hand 6
i like a small blockin bet because a small ace or a seven might call. of course, fold if you get raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very well done. 2 more points for 12 total. You're in the lead for the great prize of 5 bucks. (you're also the first I've checked..)

KowCiller · #4 03-24-2005, 02:49 PM

Ok I'll take a stab at the bet the river game [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Ok, Hand 1:

I'd go for option B, bet a bit less than 1/2 the pot.

Hand 2:

B, but I think it's close and player dependent. A lot of people will bet their boat on the river there, fearing a check behind. I'm not sure what he's calling with there on the turn unless it's 77, 44, 22...An overpair would have surely bet the flop. Presumably UTG wouldn't have a 5. Yet his check on the river is throwing me off a bit. Against a loosie who could have a 5 UTG, I'll call the river checkraise.

Hand 4:
Edited:
Option B.
He check-minraises you on the flop on T 2 2 board. Very weird. I think it could be a donk trying to play a flush draw like this (wouldn't be bad if the checkraise was for more than min amount, imo). I would expect to see a mid-pocket pair or flush draw out of this guy a decent portion of the time.

Hand 5:
Option B, bet 1/2 the pot.
I play this a bit differently though. I'll definitely bet this flop heads up in position. Check behind on the turn and then value bet 1/2 to 2/3 the pot on the river.

Hand 6:
Option D, throw a blocking bet out there and fold to a raise. I think you have the best hand a good portion of the time here.

So how did I do? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

KoW

BobboFitos · #5 03-24-2005, 03:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So how did I do?

KoW

[/ QUOTE ]

better then me ;/

also, i think you skipped hand 2 and made hand 3 hand 2...

madscout · #6 03-24-2005, 04:07 PM

1)A I want a cheap showdown and would hate getting c/r here

2)B Induce a river bluff by missed flush draw?

3)B I think you are ahead here most the time, but a c/r would probably indicate a boat

4)A Check behind. Your stop and go on the turn indicates a lot of strength (I think), and your opponent still calls. If he missed a flush draw your not getting any more out of him, and if he has weak trips he could still have you beat.

5)B I'm value betting the nuts here.

6)D I'd toss in a blocking bet and fold to a raise.

BobboFitos · #7 03-24-2005, 10:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
1)A I want a cheap showdown and would hate getting c/r here

[/ QUOTE ]

0 pts. I still think this is a bet that goes uncalled most of the time, but the chance they have a BIG hand at this point is slim - with two pair / set / straight they (should) have shown either some aggression on the flop, or definately when I give some turn action. So yeah, a checkraise would be ugly, but I think this is a pos EV bet. I just didn't think it at the time ;x
[ QUOTE ]

2)B Induce a river bluff by missed flush draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

what I would do against a bigger stack, on the board with 1!

[ QUOTE ]

3)B I think you are ahead here most the time, but a c/r would probably indicate a boat

[/ QUOTE ] going to give the full 2 here, 3 total

[ QUOTE ]

4)A Check behind. Your stop and go on the turn indicates a lot of strength (I think), and your opponent still calls. If he missed a flush draw your not getting any more out of him, and if he has weak trips he could still have you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]if opponent was BB, or the board was T 5 5, I think your thinking is very valid and smart, but given a UTG limper and T 2 2, (and very straightforward player) I think checking is missing alot of value. (and yet I checked!) 1 total
[ QUOTE ]

5)B I'm value betting the nuts here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, nice! How much though!?!?! :P eh.. 2 total

[ QUOTE ]

6)D I'd toss in a blocking bet and fold to a raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the last one is standard, I kinda wanted to bet more and really bleed top pair, but I think the current line / what everyone advises is in fact the best. 4 total. you, like me, need to work on our river play

KowCiller · #8 03-24-2005, 04:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
also, i think you skipped hand 2 and made hand 3 hand 2...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oops. You're right. On hand #2 I would check/cal to snap off a bluff from a missed flush draw.

KoW

BobboFitos · #9 03-24-2005, 10:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok I'll take a stab at the bet the river game [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Ok, Hand 1:

I'd go for option B, bet a bit less than 1/2 the pot.

[/ QUOTE ]

2 for 2

[ QUOTE ]

Oops. You're right. On hand #2 I would check/cal to snap off a bluff from a missed flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

1 pt here. 3 total

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 2: ((MY EDIT: really 3))

B, but I think it's close and player dependent. A lot of people will bet their boat on the river there, fearing a check behind. I'm not sure what he's calling with there on the turn unless it's 77, 44, 22...An overpair would have surely bet the flop. Presumably UTG wouldn't have a 5. Yet his check on the river is throwing me off a bit. Against a loosie who could have a 5 UTG, I'll call the river checkraise.

[/ QUOTE ]

wooooo 2 more pts, 5 total

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 4:
Edited:
Option B.
He check-minraises you on the flop on T 2 2 board. Very weird. I think it could be a donk trying to play a flush draw like this (wouldn't be bad if the checkraise was for more than min amount, imo). I would expect to see a mid-pocket pair or flush draw out of this guy a decent portion of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

3 more, 8 now

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 5:
Option B, bet 1/2 the pot.
I play this a bit differently though. I'll definitely bet this flop heads up in position. Check behind on the turn and then value bet 1/2 to 2/3 the pot on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, played this a little differently, and I dont think pariculary well, your line is better. so 8, + 3 for the answer, 11 now.

[ QUOTE ]

Hand 6:
Option D, throw a blocking bet out there and fold to a raise. I think you have the best hand a good portion of the time here.

So how did I do? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

KoW

[/ QUOTE ]

very well, 13 total. you're in the lead!

fathertime · #10 03-24-2005, 04:17 PM

1. If you think his turn bet means he paired his king then b. Otherwise I guess I'd check behind.
2. I'd put him all in.
3. hand 3 is tough because of his call of your turn bet. And when the river pairs the board--ugh. I guess I'm checking behind.
4. Not sure what to make of the flop minraise (what did you think of it?). I guess I value bet for 20 to 26.
5. c or d. Maybe lean to d, let him think you are trying to push him around.
6. bet 8-10. If reraised, call or fold depending upon opponent.

Let me know how I do--played bad yesterday--ugh!