KK laydown versus DoYouSeeWhy? - Page 3

HoldingFolding · #21 11-09-2005, 10:04 PM

I'm going to have to try this with 7-2o sometime and see what happens.

OT Tony Blair you need an avatar [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

bigt439 · #22 11-09-2005, 10:33 PM

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If DYSW doesn't have AA here it is just because he thinks you will put him on AA and fold. In that case he could have 72o.

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What? No.

jzieg2313 · #23 11-09-2005, 11:06 PM

I didn't fold, pushed and felt terrible about. He had aces and I'm gone. Big deal happens every so often but that was not the reason I made the post. I was just wondering if his play was so easy to read. I still think him making this play with 7/2o is unreasonable because of the buttons call but I'm not an expert.

Thanks,

JZ

gildwulf · #24 11-09-2005, 11:08 PM

Folding is horrible. Do you see why?

adanthar · #25 11-10-2005, 12:15 AM

I really, really hate pushing there whether or not I go broke on an ace-less flop (which is probably far more often than not.)

If you're putting him on aces, a misclick, or QQ, his play postflop is exactly the same so why push now?

Annulus · #26 11-10-2005, 12:33 AM

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I play the 109s and frankly I don't think he would do that with any hand. Looks like a misclick to me. I would push.

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zipppy · #27 11-10-2005, 12:35 AM

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I really, really hate pushing there whether or not I go broke on an ace-less flop (which is probably far more often than not.)

If you're putting him on aces, a misclick, or QQ, his play postflop is exactly the same so why push now?

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If you call, is your postflop going to be any different? I imagine it might be, but I'd like to hear of examples when it would vary. [maybe just an example of a flop and action that you're folding after the flop but calling pre] For example, do you think there's a chance he's min raising with AK in which case you'll drop the hand when an ace flops? or if a queen flops are you going to worry that he has a set and fold your kings?

I think one benefit to pushing preflop has little to do with doyouseewhy...seat 1 is still in the hand, and if you push you have a good shot at getting heads up. If the three most likely options are AA, misclick, or QQ, then headsup seems to be worth trying to get.

I like a call much more if there wasn't a third guy in the hand, but there is.

>>>ZIPPPY

adanthar · #28 11-10-2005, 12:54 AM

Two very interesting things happen when DYSW flops top set or some other near nut hand: he's probably not pushing, and the guy behind me is often betting (anything) if I choose to check.

Conversely, when DYSW flops nothing important, the action will usually go push/call. If that happens, and the third guy manages to have us both beat after calling off 40% of his stack PF, good for him. But in general, when this is a misclick, I'm gonna get the third guy's chips more than the other way around, because it's Party and JT on a J high flop is the nuts.

zipppy · #29 11-10-2005, 01:15 AM

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Two very interesting things happen when DYSW flops top set or some other near nut hand: he's probably not pushing, and the guy behind me is often betting (anything) if I choose to check.

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So do you think DYSW would check with an overpair in a 3 way pot? I've not played against him, so I don't mean to imply that he would, but I ask because most people would push on a flop with "just" an overpair. if that's the case, then the only time you're folding is when DYSW hits his set. I also don't mean to imply this is a bad thing...QQ vs. your KK is great when he pushes, it's just that it's no different than if you push preflop and he calls. Also, if you do just call and a K or A flops, is DYSW able to get away from QQ? If so, you could be losing out on chips by not pushing preflop.

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Conversely, when DYSW flops nothing important, the action will usually go push/call. If that happens, and the third guy manages to have us both beat after calling off 40% of his stack PF, good for him. But in general, when this is a misclick, I'm gonna get the third guy's chips more than the other way around, because it's Party and JT on a J high flop is the nuts.

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This is true. But, even though you might get the third guy's chips more than the other way around, are you going to get the third guys chips andDYSW's chips more than not?

However, it also might be that third guy is already attached to his hand. If so, pushing preflop might not isolate DYSW. if not, then pushing does no good.

John Hurst · #30 11-10-2005, 06:29 PM

Clearly I wouldn't minraise with only one opponent in the hand. With Hero and masterconnor both in the hand I'm presented with more options. Minraising reopens the action and often one of the opponents will push a medium pocket pair or AK. I'm not saying it's a great play but it allows both of the opponents to make a mistake.