VP$IP 21%. What do I play that you don't?

fourpin · #1 11-10-2004, 02:32 AM

Thanks to bisonbison for his player rating post.
I am trying to increase my BB/100 by "earning" a moneybag icon. My current VP$IP is 20.8%. I Notice most winning players are at about 18% or so (many claim 15% or lower). Can anyone offer ideas on how to use Poker Tracker to determine which hands I shouldn't be playing?

I am currently earning almost 6 BB/100 at $.25/$.50 holdem over 9000 hands played.
I know I could save 2 or 3 percent by not playing hands like Kxs or stealing as often, but with 45%-50% seeing the flop there seem to be alot of opportunities that would be missed.

Thanks in advance for your ideas.

sin808 · #2 11-10-2004, 02:51 AM

the 20% guideline is not set in stone. nano limits and shorthanded games (as examples) offer more profitable opportunities with speculative hands. My VP$IP has always hovered around 20-22%. As the skill level of your opponents increases those opportunities tend to go away. I'd say anything under 23 or so is probably reasonable (standard disclaimer goes here). Just be sure to adjust your starting requirements to the texture of the table and not worry so much about numbers. You could just be on a good run of cards too.

fourpin · #3 11-10-2004, 02:59 AM

Thanks for the reply.
I do notice I am at about 20% VP$IP when I play .50/1.00. Maybe the lower see the flop % shows me fewer opportunities. As for a good run of cards, 9000 hands is a small sample but I am working to see it continue.

Ajax410 · #4 11-10-2004, 03:25 AM

When I started playing .5/1 limit, I too struggled to get my VPIP under the coveted 20% marker. However, as I moved up to 1/2, and then 2/4, it became progressively easier to see why anything above 20% is really not optimal.

Speculative hands, specicifically suited connectors, one-gappers, aces, and kings, became less valuable from EP. Why is this so? Because these hands are not that great in small pots - if someone behind you raises, you will likely face a fraction of the field, and your hand doesn't hold up. So, as aggression becomes more matter-of-fact at tables you play at, the number of hands that are +EV go way down. I don't consider myself a significantly tighter player, but my VPIP, which was at 21% on a consistent basis, now hovers closer to 15-16%.

Hope this helps.

Ajax

helpmeout · #5 11-10-2004, 05:50 AM

lol dont worry about trying to get some stupid icon from bisons player ratings.

Having a VPIP of 15-20% doesnt make you a winning player and it is not really important.

Anyone with a VPIP of near 15% playing in loose games is playing way too tight.

If you are playing $2/$4 or below then a VPIP of 20+ is fine.

My VPIP for 50c/$1 was almost 25%. In these loose games you should be playing low pocket pairs, medium suited connectors even high suited cards like Q8s K7s Axs UTG because you will likely get enough callers for them to be profitable.

If your post flop play is good then these hands are worth playing.

When you move up limits or play in tighter games then your VPIP should become much lower because these weak multiway hands are no longer playable in early and even middle position.

BTW if you are earning 6bb/100 over 9k hands then it is time to move up.

MarkL444 · #6 11-10-2004, 06:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
BTW if you are earning 6bb/100 over 9k hands then it is time to move up.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm, small sample size and you dont know what his bankroll is. although there is a decent chance this is true.

helpmeout · #7 11-10-2004, 07:06 AM

small sample size my ass, 540BB over 9k hands says he is a winner at that limit

SCfuji · #8 11-10-2004, 08:00 AM

you can be a winning player with a VPIP of 25 if you play well enough after the flop. 22% is fine. ive had a few sessions where i was at 21 for a while and it didnt seem to hurt me at all. one thing i do like to keep in order is that i am tighter up front than in the back (stfu with your jokes). if you sort your VPIP by position in your poker tracker you should be highest in the SB and button and looser the further away you go from the button. the vpip from the big blind should be closer to that of late position.

im pretty sure that we play similar hands. Axs, any pocket pair (circumstancial), big suited cards... try tightening up on your AXs cards up front. Try to keep the X>=8 in EP and loosen up your standards as you get closer to the button. Ajax and I discussed this a couple weeks ago and you should feel more comfortable playing them if you have better kickers. Just be wary of the A/x in a raised pot - you are mainly looking for the flush or straight (if it is possible).

KXs is a hand that you should only play completing the SB, BB in a multi multi multi-way pot and from the button or 1 off the button.

SCfuji · #9 11-10-2004, 08:01 AM

debatable. he definitely should try a few sessions of 1/2 and see how he fairs but i dont agree that it should be an auto-move up...

helpmeout · #10 11-10-2004, 09:10 AM

How is it debatable? If you are up 540BB at a limit over 9k hands you are beating it easily.

If it was something like 3BB/100 then obviously not the same because it is a weaker winrate where a bad streak would seriously dent his BR.

If he went on a 150BB downslide at his current rate he'd still be well ahead.

He is playing 25c/50c so a move to 50c/$1 should be his next step (I assume you misread).